The Advantages of Floor Coupled Up-Firing Speakers - Page 13 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th May 2008, 03:34 PM   #121
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by graaf
yes I can see them
can You post a schematic drawing of Your current setup - how exactly the loudspeakers are positioned?
best,
graaf
I never attached a file before, just hope it will work...!

The ceiling is at 2,4 m and the LS are 35 cm deep. They are lifted above the ground by pieces of wood so that the driver is around 40 cm above the floor.

Regards,
Etienne
Attached Images
File Type: jpg vue du dessus (hp couchés).jpg (29.8 KB, 580 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 03:49 PM   #122
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Hi Earl

Agree about lack of facts in audio.

The material on Ted's site is somewhat simplified. I thought the polar responses are on the pages for the individual drivers but my mistake. Much of what he has researched has appeared in Wireless World over the years and I think I must be recalling some of those articles, which include more measurements. I'm hoping we'll be able to get reprints of the material onto his website in the next year or so.

Anyway, getting off the topic slightly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 04:05 PM   #123
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

Not many speakers are flat 45° off axis.
That's THE problem of the set up described by Graaf. In his case (mine as well for the moment being) the drivers should be flat off axis up to almost 180º... If you've seen a driver like this, please tell me!
In our current set ups, the higher the frequency, the less direct sound we get. It is done in a quite progressive way so that it doesn't feel that wrong. Then if you read Briggs's book: Loudspeakers, at that time they recommended to have the medium and tweeter facing upward in order to achieve more spaciousness. The best tweeters of that time went up to 12kHz, maybe 15kHz... I wonder when LS started to have forward firing drivers???

Looking at this link, we can see that the FE167E (my current driver) is not that bad on axis but omnidirectional only up to 2kHz.
I will try to lift my LS up so that I can see them behind the couches. This could improve the situation since I will get more direct sound. But it could as well worsen it since i will be listening more and more off axis...

Any experience about multiple drivers in this set up?
I have the feeling that it should not be a problem below around 200Hz (where the room modes start to be discrete) but my concern is with the mid high transition. I guess the delay caused by the distance between the 2 drivers will be audible. So that coaxial speaker would be a better choice. Just guessing, any thoughts?

Regards,
Etienne
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 04:43 PM   #124
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
gedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by Etienne88

Looking at this link, we can see that the FE167E (my current driver) is not that bad on axis but omnidirectional only up to 2kHz.

Any experience about multiple drivers in this set up?
I have the feeling that it should not be a problem below around 200Hz (where the room modes start to be discrete) but my concern is with the mid high transition. I guess the delay caused by the distance between the 2 drivers will be audible. So that coaxial speaker would be a better choice. Just guessing, any thoughts?

Thanks for the post to that believable data. This is the kind of response curves that I typically see when I measure loudspeakers - they are terrible.

I never use multiple drivers, I don't think that it is a good idea.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 05:42 PM   #125
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

I never use multiple drivers, I don't think that it is a good idea.
Earl, with multiple drivers I meant a boomer, a midrange and a tweeter. I am not sure my message was clear since I know you use subwoofers! If I understand you well, you use one single driver per channel to cover 150-200Hz to 20kHz. Is that right? That is 7 octaves, it is huge and I think I know what I'm talking about since I use a full range driver.
Do you manage to get flat response from 0º to 45º on 7 octaves with your horn design?

Regards,
Etienne
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 06:35 PM   #126
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
gedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by Etienne88


Earl, with multiple drivers I meant a boomer, a midrange and a tweeter. I am not sure my message was clear since I know you use subwoofers! If I understand you well, you use one single driver per channel to cover 150-200Hz to 20kHz. Is that right? That is 7 octaves, it is huge and I think I know what I'm talking about since I use a full range driver.
Do you manage to get flat response from 0º to 45º on 7 octaves with your horn design?

Regards,
Etienne
I use subs below about 150 Hz. The mains have large woofers operating from about 50 Hz through about 900 Hz. The waveguide take over from there. The woofers are large so that they have narrowed their directivity down to that of the waveguide at the crossover frequency. The waveguides are completly CD above 1 kHz where they match the woofer - thats about 4 octaves, not seven. The need for directivty drops below 1 kHz for psychoacoustic reasons (thank god because it wouldn't be very easy to do). The 4" driver is never CD, except when its omni. But omni is a disaster in a small room with wall reflections (again unless these are below about 500 Hz.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 06:41 PM   #127
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
A light breaks in distant window ... when I was referring to Ted's drivers earlier, I shouldn't have been bandying about phrases like CD. His articles talk about directivity and the advantages of cone drivers over domes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 06:54 PM   #128
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

Have you read my book?
No I haven't, neither I have read EJJ's book

therefore I was just asking and quoting adding the word "allegedly"

Have You read EJJ's book?

best,
graaf
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 07:01 PM   #129
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by Etienne88

I never attached a file before, just hope it will work...!
The ceiling is at 2,4 m and the LS are 35 cm deep. They are lifted above the ground by pieces of wood so that the driver is around 40 cm above the floor.
now I see, thanks fo the image

nice room, I think that those couches can take away the highs

perhaps You can use some kind of passive or active equalization instead of elevating the loudspeaker higher?

best,
graaf
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2008, 07:05 PM   #130
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bavarian Forest
Quote:
Originally posted by Etienne88

Any experience about multiple drivers in this set up?
I have the feeling that it should not be a problem below around 200Hz (where the room modes start to be discrete) but my concern is with the mid high transition. I guess the delay caused by the distance between the 2 drivers will be audible. So that coaxial speaker would be a better choice. Just guessing, any thoughts?

Regards,
Etienne

You have to make sure that the midrange has still an omnidirectional radiation pattern at the crossover point. Otherwise the direct sound will have a hole in the FR in a critical region. My trial in the multi-way direction will be a narrow-beam CD-horn radiating hardly any sound in the listener´s direction, combined with either front-firing or ceiling-firing midrange.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using a diffuser cone for up-firing speakers tspringer99 Multi-Way 19 23rd July 2014 03:04 AM
Floor Standing Speakers. gurpreetsingh Full Range 11 12th June 2012 07:42 AM
side/ rear firing speakers Good/Bad? mcmahon48 Multi-Way 1 6th February 2009 01:28 PM
How far can the driver of a down-firing sub be from the floor? The Paulinator Subwoofers 11 16th May 2007 09:10 PM
Woofer: side firing pair vs front firing? tcpip Multi-Way 13 9th September 2005 03:13 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:37 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2