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Old 29th March 2010, 04:51 PM   #1131
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We don't need any new mixing methods. We just need to have people start using what's already there.
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Old 29th March 2010, 05:33 PM   #1132
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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You just said under the common mixing standard it is better to use the rear speakers as ambient speakers only. Would be a waste of money if that stayed that way.
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Old 29th March 2010, 05:47 PM   #1133
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That's not what I said.
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Old 29th March 2010, 05:58 PM   #1134
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
What is the current standard for panning between front and rear of the same side?
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
...it should not be tried. ... Left and right surround channels should be used for envelopment.
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Old 29th March 2010, 07:12 PM   #1135
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Guess you misunderstood what I wrote. We were talking about lateral summing localization, e.g. one speaker to the front left and one to the back left. This is something that does not work well with any system that relies on summing localization. If you want good lateral phantom image localization, you would need to introduce additional speakers. Phantom images between back left and back right surround speakers work similar good as between front left and right.
Does that make it any clearer?
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Old 29th March 2010, 07:28 PM   #1136
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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In the AVS recording I tested the front and rear phantom localization is very wide and the ambience closes the gap smoothly. Although it will never be a standard it shows one can get very far without dozens of extra speakers.

Graaf, if you want to test: You will need two amps and the balance between front and rear is critical. And use the Kefs in front and the flooders in the rear.
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Old 29th March 2010, 07:39 PM   #1137
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Don't understand what you're trying to say. Multichannel that is derived from a downmixed signal will always be inferior to discrete multichannel signals.
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Old 29th March 2010, 07:42 PM   #1138
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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I wanted to say that it is too early to give up.
"downmixing" at it is understood today can be very different from a more sophisticated way of panning.

Last edited by el`Ol; 29th March 2010 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 29th March 2010, 08:11 PM   #1139
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Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
I wanted to say that it is too early to give up.
"downmixing" at it is understood today can be very different from a more sophisticated way of panning.
Wait for the Toole to arrive. There's much more to it than what we've discussed and what some people proposed.
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Old 29th March 2010, 09:50 PM   #1140
Key is offline Key  United States
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A lot of questions I'd like to answer but just don't have the time. Been really busy lately with real world.

I will say that markus is missing something here. My standard that I am about to explain will be adopted one way or the other because it's the objective truth. I know he and others probably think I am full of it and I really can't blame them. But I am going to prove it to a certain extent soon. It will have to be rigorously proven over time but really that isn't my job or interest. I want to just get back to making music honestly.

Okay that first "out of speaker" localization demo was really spur of the moment and not ideal. Here are 3 better examples imo. That first one had some "rice crispies" that I can't do anything about and probably annoy some people.

Lossless
Lateral Reflection Test
zSHARE - THE ROOTS - Y_All Know Who.flac
Invisible Speaker Test
zSHARE - The Pharcyde - Officer.flac
Just because test. (a little bit of an artifact threshold test lol)
zSHARE - Gnarls Barkley - Crazy.flac

Lossy
zSHARE - THE ROOTS - Y_All Know Whoa.ogg
zSHARE - The Pharcyde - Officer.ogg
zSHARE - Gnarls Barkley - Crazy.ogg
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