The Advantages of Floor Coupled Up-Firing Speakers - Page 112 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th March 2010, 08:44 PM   #1111
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bavarian Forest
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
it's easy and cheap to say "Bose (...) misguided craze"
I thought I tried everything with my fullrangers, but even now I found out that the 901 is usually just placed around 40 cm from the walls. Seemed too crazy to me to try something like that, so I can't say.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2010, 08:54 PM   #1112
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key View Post
Well I was still trying to help. And you didn't hear too much marketing ** from me - at least I admit that the other decoders are trying to do the same thing. So in a sense my system is more about perfection than anything new. I feel like I have perfected the basic system I have told you about and I guess I could just try to give it away and be mister hero or whatever but the truth is people like you and others are probably going to argue with me until my dieing day and I am no savior of audio or the like. It's just another system like any other but precisely refined. And even if I showed it to you right here and now you would probably over think it and dismiss it based on erroneous theory.
You helped? All you provided were claims without any data or details. There is also nothing to discuss or overthink because you just did not offer anything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2010, 09:05 PM   #1113
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bavarian Forest
Sorry, but I have a problem with the basics, I don't want to disturb the discussion, but maybe others will benefit, too.
Does a usual surround mixer just pan between the front and the rear speaker of the same side? And what is a decoder? Does it replace the mixer, or does it correct that rudimentary method by re-calculating the ready mix?
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2010, 10:23 PM   #1114
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
When mixing in "real" surround, a signal can be mixed to any channel. Directional properties of sound fields are retained to a high degree.
A "decoder" just processes the final mix and derives signals that are assigned to additional speakers. These signals are either matrixed (embedded) into the two stereo signals (e.g. Dolby Surround) or derived based on certain algorithms (e.g. Dolby Pro Logic II).
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2010, 01:11 AM   #1115
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
it's easy and cheap to say "Bose (...) misguided craze"
Not that that is what I said, but never mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
Would You call John Watkinson ("Art of Sound Reproduction" and many more) or David Moulton ("Total Recording" and many more) misguided crazy person (aka audiophool proposing crazy schemes)?

or Stu Hegeman or Hiroyuki Yoshii?
I am not particulary calling anyone engineering Omni's or related (and the list is quite a bit longer) crazy.

What I did say was that there was in a certain period of time a fashion (or craze) for omnidirectional designs. All replete with lengthy academeic papers as to why they where better. This fashion has since largely died down and the academic output is nowadays generally seen as flawed.

As to why individuals do what they do, you need to ask them.

Ciao T
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2010, 04:15 AM   #1116
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
diyAudio Moderator R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post

This fashion has since largely died down and the academic output is nowadays generally seen as flawed.
Maybe concluded on wrong assumptions

I havent had much believe in omnis, until now

From my recent experiments something tells me that omnis should either be based on multiple drivers, or the drivers should be placed very close to the floor

But who wants a small speaker that looks like a cheap sub
__________________
sometimes we know very little, and sometimes we know too much
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2010, 07:05 AM   #1117
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bavarian Forest
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
When mixing in "real" surround, a signal can be mixed to any channel. Directional properties of sound fields are retained to a high degree.
I've never had a surround system playing in my home (except the proprietary Andrea von Salis quadrophonia), but what I can say is that a stereo recording, no matter how it is produced always sounded messy when I listened to it turned 90 (I tried that with different recordings years ago with my Spendors). When stereo works that has nothing to do with soundfield, only with the "decoder" in our heads.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2010, 01:20 PM   #1118
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
But who wants a small speaker that looks like a cheap sub
women
it has really very high WAF, my wife like it a lot in piano black finish, it does look like a small sub but not cheap sub

and there are certainly worse things around like sewer pipes loudspeakers fo example

anyway, if an audiophile can show off with his turnable setup and valves, the loudspeaker can look like small sub

best regards,
graaf
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz

Last edited by graaf; 29th March 2010 at 01:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2010, 01:25 PM   #1119
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
I'vWhen stereo works that has nothing to do with soundfield, only with the "decoder" in our heads.
I agree, no wavefiled synthesis is needed but speakers and the room and the decoder in our heads as a system
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2010, 02:06 PM   #1120
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
I've never had a surround system playing in my home (except the proprietary Andrea von Salis quadrophonia), but what I can say is that a stereo recording, no matter how it is produced always sounded messy when I listened to it turned 90 (I tried that with different recordings years ago with my Spendors). When stereo works that has nothing to do with soundfield, only with the "decoder" in our heads.
What do you mean by "turned 90"? This is not how multichannel audio works. Upmix algorithms had and have all sorts of problems and limitations, that's why multichannel audio like we know it today was invented (see Toole for more details). The problem is that the industry that would benefit the most from multichannel audio didn't adopt it (yet): the audio industry. The technical platform is there but instead of using it, guys like Key "invent" a "new" upmix algorithm. This will not change things to the better.

Last edited by markus76; 29th March 2010 at 02:13 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using a diffuser cone for up-firing speakers tspringer99 Multi-Way 19 23rd July 2014 03:04 AM
Floor Standing Speakers. gurpreetsingh Full Range 11 12th June 2012 07:42 AM
side/ rear firing speakers Good/Bad? mcmahon48 Multi-Way 1 6th February 2009 01:28 PM
How far can the driver of a down-firing sub be from the floor? The Paulinator Subwoofers 11 16th May 2007 09:10 PM
Woofer: side firing pair vs front firing? tcpip Multi-Way 13 9th September 2005 03:13 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:39 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2