When I tried cardioid designs for the midrange, I could never get around the over-damping effect of the pressure-release in a small volume "enclosure".
It always seem to "suck the life" out of the drivers, and blunt spatial aspects. Yet when I read the reviews, somehow the designers have overcome this..
-peaks my curiosity.
Here is a radial design that will necessarily "flood" the room (despite the waveguides):
Morrison Audio fine audio speakers and electronics.
Notably one of the loudspeakers from Morrison, (..and they are all essentially similar), was concluded as having the best sound-staging effects of *any* loudspeaker ever reviewed by The Absolute Sound.
Morrison Audio fine audio speakers and electronics.
Notably one of the loudspeakers from Morrison, (..and they are all essentially similar), was concluded as having the best sound-staging effects of *any* loudspeaker ever reviewed by The Absolute Sound.
to understand Helsinki 1.5 it is useful to take a look at their precedessors in the Gradient line
first of them all were Gradient 1.1 or 1.0:
more: Myydyt kaiuttimet - Classic Audio
take notice of a much bigger midbass unit, operating as a dipole in the range of 250<1500 Hz, its acoustical center closer to the floor than in the case of Helsinki
in fact all the subsequent models in the line (1.2, 1.3 etc.) used the same configuration, Helsinki is the first to employ a smaller midbass in a cardioid enclosure
first of them all were Gradient 1.1 or 1.0:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
more: Myydyt kaiuttimet - Classic Audio
take notice of a much bigger midbass unit, operating as a dipole in the range of 250<1500 Hz, its acoustical center closer to the floor than in the case of Helsinki
in fact all the subsequent models in the line (1.2, 1.3 etc.) used the same configuration, Helsinki is the first to employ a smaller midbass in a cardioid enclosure
One of the inventions of 1.3 was to use the 15" driver at frequenciens where it shows remarkable directivity! This added to dipole function and upwards tilt... The tweeter section is a line array configuration with gradual low-pass, also giving more vertical directivity. The bass is downfiring, thus giving no floor reflection but utilizing floor boost!
A genius' work of art! 35 years ago!
It is my dream to clone this and utilize minidsp
A genius' work of art! 35 years ago!
It is my dream to clone this and utilize minidsp
Last edited:
exactly - no need of a fancy cardioid enclosure
no point in cloning - I believe we can make it better!
no point in cloning - I believe we can make it better!
What is your recipe of the ideal ?
^^ is this rebirth worthy of an own thread? I´d like to participate!
I don't have skill and measuring system to make a xo myself, it would be a pleasure to participate in a project like this. I have listened to a pair of 1.3s quite a lot at my friend's some 14 years ago. I could buy originals but "signature" remake with modern technology and knowhow would be more fun!
I don't have skill and measuring system to make a xo myself, it would be a pleasure to participate in a project like this. I have listened to a pair of 1.3s quite a lot at my friend's some 14 years ago. I could buy originals but "signature" remake with modern technology and knowhow would be more fun!
I believe that floor reflection must me attenuated and low-passed as much as possible
I also believe that (and this belief seems to have been confirmed independently by Mr Croft research quoted earlier in this thread) - that we need a certain optimal ratio of direct to off ceiling reflected sound
this ratio depends on the speaker directivity, the angle at which it fires up to the ceiling and the listening distance
I also believe in the necessity of time-coherence in the sense of the wavefront fidelity - all early reflections should preserve the shape of the initial transient that reaches the listener as the direct sound
so I believe that we need an adjustable (with regard to the angle of orientation of its acoustical axis), controlled directivity and an essentially time-coherent loudspeaker, not time-coherent on axis like some, but in the sense stated above
in the light of the foregoing Gradient designs aim in the right direction but don't meet the above criteria as strictly as it is possible
What the
don't tell me You can't recognise the song!
"For those about who are about to HUMPPA! We salute you!!"
for it smells like ...HUMPPA!
Elakelaiset "Smells Like Humppa" - YouTube
so... let's HUMP! Go ahead, HUMP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhtszrTRbAo
geez I just I love the guys!
Last edited:
but we need some serious loudspeakers to enjoy humppa in full
time to put the science back into loudspeakers ..for the sake of humppa if not for anything else!
Seems like you guys lolo and graaf know us Finns! 
Sauna Porkka Playboys - Ace of spades - YouTube
Sibelius, sisu Kivikasvot - Tankeros Love - YouTube
Sauna Porkka Playboys - Ace of spades - YouTube
Sibelius, sisu Kivikasvot - Tankeros Love - YouTube
Seems like you guys lolo and graaf know us Finns!
Sauna Porkka Playboys - Ace of spades - YouTube
Sibelius, sisu Kivikasvot - Tankeros Love - YouTube
great!
I don't know much about Finland and Finns, a bit about history and culture, I like Sibelius and Mannerheim and Kalevala for instance
and Gradient, and some old obscure Finnish black metal bands I know that Finns are tough people and also innovative people and I like it
but first of all I just know the good stuff
and some Finns seem to know the good stuff too 
Seriously spoken, humppa is a dance rhythm that was developed here, it is basically polka in slow tempo Humppa - YouTube
And my favourite good stuff is this Olvi - Company
I have just made up a name for a new project speaker - "Aino gradient"
"Aino" is the most popular women's name in finnish, and the name of my youngest daughter, my grandmother and the wife of J. Sibelius
"gradient" derivates from sound dispersion physics and perhaps from Gradient 1.3 -speaker designed by Jorma Salmi
The project thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ollaborative-speaker-project.html#post3395680
And my favourite good stuff is this Olvi - Company
I have just made up a name for a new project speaker - "Aino gradient"
"Aino" is the most popular women's name in finnish, and the name of my youngest daughter, my grandmother and the wife of J. Sibelius
"gradient" derivates from sound dispersion physics and perhaps from Gradient 1.3 -speaker designed by Jorma Salmi
The project thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ollaborative-speaker-project.html#post3395680
as I said before - I can't see any point in cloning, in this case in cloning Salmi's designs
Why such self-limitation? For example - why throw Stig Carlsson's orthoacoustics out of the picture?
oh well, I'm not sure how Finns feel about Swedes ...
anyway
another example - Mr Croft and His Snell Type One project, why not be inspired by it either?
it means a suitable coaxial, one that is big enough and sufficiently coincident, augmented by an appropriate bass system