Hello all. Like most here I imagine, I have built, bought, tweeked, etc., for years. various direct radiator, mini monitors, diappolito cofigurations and so on. Recently, I was speaker shopping for a project, and while about to settle on the "Thor kit" from madisound, about 1500 bucks or so. Well, I bumped into something that took me back to the mid 70's, a pair of altec A-7 voice ot the theatre speakers. My audio friends think I have gone nuts, but my god, this system will raise goose bumps Like no other I have experienced. Is anybody out there similarly afflicted?
My drivers (515-8G woofers, 902-8A high freq. compression drivers/511B horns,loaded in 828 A-7 cabinets) the woofer drivers in particular, were a little off, so they are on vaction to great plaines audio to be totally rebuilt. All my "high end" speakers sound like a boom box in comparison.
Cheers, Russellc
My drivers (515-8G woofers, 902-8A high freq. compression drivers/511B horns,loaded in 828 A-7 cabinets) the woofer drivers in particular, were a little off, so they are on vaction to great plaines audio to be totally rebuilt. All my "high end" speakers sound like a boom box in comparison.
Cheers, Russellc
I have succumbed to the magic of Altecs as well Russell, and it’s great to have finally found something I can be happy with for a long time to come. I owned Altec 19s when I was in high school and got stupid, sold them, and jumped on the “high-end” rollercoaster for 20 years. I spent lots of money, constantly changing gear, messing with new combinations and in the meantime – not really enjoying listening to music anymore.
Then I heard a reasonably priced system based on high-efficiency speakers and SET tubes. Aside from a little missing bass, the magic was back, I was getting lost in the music again. I then found a mint pair of Altec 604-8G drivers which brought bass into the picture. I’m in love with audio all over again. I DIYed a pair of new cabinets for them, installed new diaphragms from Great Plains and tweaked a bit removing the loading caps and lining the inside of the diaphragm covers with felt. I’m using the stock Altec crossovers for now but I’m building a second 300B SET amp and will probably bi-amp with a Marchand tube crossover. They are big, don’t have much WAF (although my wife loves them) and the “audiophile” guys think you are nuts, but MAN, do Altecs make music.
Here's a link to pictures of my Altec 604 build.
http://www.wardsweb.org/Billfort/
Then I heard a reasonably priced system based on high-efficiency speakers and SET tubes. Aside from a little missing bass, the magic was back, I was getting lost in the music again. I then found a mint pair of Altec 604-8G drivers which brought bass into the picture. I’m in love with audio all over again. I DIYed a pair of new cabinets for them, installed new diaphragms from Great Plains and tweaked a bit removing the loading caps and lining the inside of the diaphragm covers with felt. I’m using the stock Altec crossovers for now but I’m building a second 300B SET amp and will probably bi-amp with a Marchand tube crossover. They are big, don’t have much WAF (although my wife loves them) and the “audiophile” guys think you are nuts, but MAN, do Altecs make music.
Here's a link to pictures of my Altec 604 build.
http://www.wardsweb.org/Billfort/
Hi Russell,
I don't use Altec gear (though I think I have some 808s in a box somewhere), but I do use or own Klipsch, JBL, EV, Beyma, Fostex and BMS (and soon Eminence) high efficiency drivers and horns. So I <i>do</i> know where you're coming from. Once you've been down the high efficiency path it's not really possible to go back. And who would want to? Dynamics at both ends of the scale, low distortion, excellent phase response in band, efficiency and <i>aliveness</i> that make almost all DR's anemic in comparison.
The Holy Trilogy of Audio
vinyl
tubes
horns
Lastly Russell, those 515's are known to be dangerous beast. However, I am an authorised centre for thier safe disposal, so send them to me immediately, and by return mail I will send you some nice Radio Shack drivers to replace them. You'll be safe from harm then.
Cheers
I don't use Altec gear (though I think I have some 808s in a box somewhere), but I do use or own Klipsch, JBL, EV, Beyma, Fostex and BMS (and soon Eminence) high efficiency drivers and horns. So I <i>do</i> know where you're coming from. Once you've been down the high efficiency path it's not really possible to go back. And who would want to? Dynamics at both ends of the scale, low distortion, excellent phase response in band, efficiency and <i>aliveness</i> that make almost all DR's anemic in comparison.
The Holy Trilogy of Audio
vinyl
tubes
horns
Lastly Russell, those 515's are known to be dangerous beast. However, I am an authorised centre for thier safe disposal, so send them to me immediately, and by return mail I will send you some nice Radio Shack drivers to replace them. You'll be safe from harm then.
Cheers
Hi Russell,
I started down the high efficiency path 25 years ago with JBL. My system has gravitated toward TAD over the past few years and is currently a JBL/TAD hybrid. Although my experience is not as diverse as Brett’s and I only have SS electronics (now), I’m afflicted (blessed) with the same love of horns for the same reasons.
Rodd Yamashita
I started down the high efficiency path 25 years ago with JBL. My system has gravitated toward TAD over the past few years and is currently a JBL/TAD hybrid. Although my experience is not as diverse as Brett’s and I only have SS electronics (now), I’m afflicted (blessed) with the same love of horns for the same reasons.
Rodd Yamashita
Thanks for all the replies! Good lord, I thought I was going nuts!
How could any one go back after a good listen. I get sick when I think of all the high end speakers I have wasted money on. I thought I liked them when I first heard them around the 70's but fell for the "needs 200 watts to drive a minimonitor" syndrome.
I almost noticed the high eff. advantage in the 80's when a musician friend had a hugh set of JBL something or the others that really rocked, but I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention. Then, out of nowhere, for no good reason, just bought these A-7! What a revelation! Yes they are hugh in my 14x17 livingroom, but one listen and I was transfixed, albeit with one cone/voice coil incorrect @ 14 ohms, one @ 4.4 ohms hooked up to an altec 8 ohm crossover. I can hardly wait for their arrival back from great plaines audio. Listening to my "high end" stuff is like listening to a close and play. After a couple of days of no altec, I began to "readjust" to the high end speakers. I know when the altec are back I will be back to audio heaven. I really believe this has cured me of speaker of the month syndrome, in the same fashion that AVA super pas111 cured me of preamp of the month syndrome. Its like successfully quiting smoking. I no longer have to wonder if something sounds better...what a relief! now I listen to MUSIC.
Thanks to everyone for your replies
Bill, your 604s are beautiful i,ve seen your site!
Very jealous of those TAD drivers,
Will send out my dangerous driver immediately
to exchange for those R.S. "safe" drivers!
Russellc
"just give high eff. a chance"....whether altec or what ever...get relief.... get horns...mine gone now...I go crazy.
How could any one go back after a good listen. I get sick when I think of all the high end speakers I have wasted money on. I thought I liked them when I first heard them around the 70's but fell for the "needs 200 watts to drive a minimonitor" syndrome.
I almost noticed the high eff. advantage in the 80's when a musician friend had a hugh set of JBL something or the others that really rocked, but I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention. Then, out of nowhere, for no good reason, just bought these A-7! What a revelation! Yes they are hugh in my 14x17 livingroom, but one listen and I was transfixed, albeit with one cone/voice coil incorrect @ 14 ohms, one @ 4.4 ohms hooked up to an altec 8 ohm crossover. I can hardly wait for their arrival back from great plaines audio. Listening to my "high end" stuff is like listening to a close and play. After a couple of days of no altec, I began to "readjust" to the high end speakers. I know when the altec are back I will be back to audio heaven. I really believe this has cured me of speaker of the month syndrome, in the same fashion that AVA super pas111 cured me of preamp of the month syndrome. Its like successfully quiting smoking. I no longer have to wonder if something sounds better...what a relief! now I listen to MUSIC.
Thanks to everyone for your replies
Bill, your 604s are beautiful i,ve seen your site!
Very jealous of those TAD drivers,
Will send out my dangerous driver immediately
to exchange for those R.S. "safe" drivers!
Russellc
"just give high eff. a chance"....whether altec or what ever...get relief.... get horns...mine gone now...I go crazy.
Hello ,
I am using also these Altecs with the 515 16-G to give my amplifier an even easier life. I did built the cabinets myself using sand to damp resonances and cork outside for the looks. In the near future i like to add wings to give a deeper bass. Instead of the Altecs i use a Tad 2001 with a French designed wooden sand-filled horn. After all these years i still remains avery musical system. I am planning to make it a bi-amped system by using a 12 db filter at the input of the poweramps. At this time still a el-84 based line-amp designed with an output transformer for the French broadcasting systems in 1961. Happy greetings, Ed
I am using also these Altecs with the 515 16-G to give my amplifier an even easier life. I did built the cabinets myself using sand to damp resonances and cork outside for the looks. In the near future i like to add wings to give a deeper bass. Instead of the Altecs i use a Tad 2001 with a French designed wooden sand-filled horn. After all these years i still remains avery musical system. I am planning to make it a bi-amped system by using a 12 db filter at the input of the poweramps. At this time still a el-84 based line-amp designed with an output transformer for the French broadcasting systems in 1961. Happy greetings, Ed
Hello Brett,
The idea of this horn were published in a French magazine called l'Audiophile in 1985. The writer was called Ledauphin and the horn was called pavillion bois sablé which means sand filled horn. I did buy it allready finished because i think it is a really difficult job because it uses two layers of thin wood with sand in between them. Just like the Onken horns from Japan. In these days there have been a lot of articles about Japanese audiophiles who are real fans of the VOT system. Kind greetings, Ed
The idea of this horn were published in a French magazine called l'Audiophile in 1985. The writer was called Ledauphin and the horn was called pavillion bois sablé which means sand filled horn. I did buy it allready finished because i think it is a really difficult job because it uses two layers of thin wood with sand in between them. Just like the Onken horns from Japan. In these days there have been a lot of articles about Japanese audiophiles who are real fans of the VOT system. Kind greetings, Ed
Eduard/altec
Hello eduard
Wow,youbuilt these cabs? Quite the feat.I bought mine for about 300.00 US, they had been reconditioned, repainted altec grey with new VOT stickers on the side...just like in the showroom in the 70's. Still yet, very "industrial" looking. During an altec search on this site I saw one members A-7 veneered in walnut with very nice grills. I think I will locate another set of A-7 boxes in less original condition and attempt this guys version...very attractive!
Can you post pics of your cabs?
Russellc (myself,I still need a digital camera)
Hello eduard
Wow,youbuilt these cabs? Quite the feat.I bought mine for about 300.00 US, they had been reconditioned, repainted altec grey with new VOT stickers on the side...just like in the showroom in the 70's. Still yet, very "industrial" looking. During an altec search on this site I saw one members A-7 veneered in walnut with very nice grills. I think I will locate another set of A-7 boxes in less original condition and attempt this guys version...very attractive!
Can you post pics of your cabs?
Russellc (myself,I still need a digital camera)
Your cabinets
For whatever reason, I am having difficulty posting, so I also E-mailed you concerning your outstanding cabinets. Bravo! What materials/methods did you use? I also notice your port size appears to be somewhat scaled down in size...what is up with this, and how does it work with the 515s? My port size (828 box)
appears too large.
Hopefully this post will take,
Russellc
For whatever reason, I am having difficulty posting, so I also E-mailed you concerning your outstanding cabinets. Bravo! What materials/methods did you use? I also notice your port size appears to be somewhat scaled down in size...what is up with this, and how does it work with the 515s? My port size (828 box)
appears too large.
Hopefully this post will take,
Russellc
Hello Russell,
Some extra photos have been mailed to your private e-mail. Yes, the seize of the port has been restricted by using not a frame but a panel with a hole in it to close the port. It was an idea from the French l'Audiophile magazine. It will lower the first rise in the impedance. The cabinet is finished with a layer of cork with a thickness of about 3 millimeters normally used on the floor or on walls. Kind regars, Ed
Some extra photos have been mailed to your private e-mail. Yes, the seize of the port has been restricted by using not a frame but a panel with a hole in it to close the port. It was an idea from the French l'Audiophile magazine. It will lower the first rise in the impedance. The cabinet is finished with a layer of cork with a thickness of about 3 millimeters normally used on the floor or on walls. Kind regars, Ed
The Williamsburg theatre used VOT's as of a couple years ago. When I was in grad school down that way, I used to watch a movie a week or so with them. About the time I moved there, they decommisioned the Citation II that was driving them and put in a more modern amp (A step backwards).
They were great to listen to movies on, but I wouldn't want them in my home. Waaayyyyy too colored.
Sheldon
They were great to listen to movies on, but I wouldn't want them in my home. Waaayyyyy too colored.
Sheldon
Its just a matter of personal taste and what you enjoy. I used to consider horns like VOT colored also..but I was comparing it to the presentation of " high end" speakers which I have owned/built my share of. The presentation of high end speakers, generically speaking without going in to various brand of the week, is hardly realistic, it is just the accepted fashion. With live music, I just don't get soundstaging like is presented from direct radiator "high end" speakers. Particularly silly is the treble from a dome tweeter. Now I have three sets of speeakers with dome tweeters, so its not like a have it out for them, there is just no way they produce the bloom and energy to even come close to approximating live music. Horns on the other hand do. I don't find live music to image nearly as well as my "high end" speakers. I find it to be full of colorations, rim shots blat noises of brass, so on. I have never, never been in one room of a house where a high end system was playing that I was fooled into believeing that those musicans and their instraments were actually in that room. With horns and high eff. drivers, they come to life in a very real illusion. A few months a go I wouldn't of believed I would be saying this, but here I am. It is interesting to note that my ears sort of re trained, or developed a taste for, this horn sound. When I first switch back to regular speakers, they sound like toys. but after a while, My ear retrains and they sound more normal again. But then, I miss the horn magic. Try one. your living room will never be the same. The look on people's face is priceless!
Cheers, and to each, their own!
Russellc
Cheers, and to each, their own!
Russellc
Ok guys, I am new here and actually posted about drivers for an open baffle system. I right now have a pair of VOTT's...modified 828-C cabs, 515 8-G's and 802 8-T's/511B's and I am thinking about ditching them and replacing them with open baffles...somebody talk me out of it!
The dynamics of VOTT's are unsurpassed and for symphonic music are amazing but like it was mentioned, there is a problem with coloration and the soundstage is not much to talk about, and there is still some harshness in the treble even driven with SET's (I guess this is from staring down the throat of a huge horn).
Considering these things were made to fill a 400-500 seat theater, how can you get even a decent sound stage in a normal room?
Albert
The dynamics of VOTT's are unsurpassed and for symphonic music are amazing but like it was mentioned, there is a problem with coloration and the soundstage is not much to talk about, and there is still some harshness in the treble even driven with SET's (I guess this is from staring down the throat of a huge horn).
Considering these things were made to fill a 400-500 seat theater, how can you get even a decent sound stage in a normal room?
Albert
Here are my Altecs
416-8C LF drivers
802-8G HF Drivers(tangerine phase plug)
511B horns
custom crossovers
The complete build can be found on my website: Wardsweb Voice of the Theater
416-8C LF drivers
802-8G HF Drivers(tangerine phase plug)
511B horns
custom crossovers
The complete build can be found on my website: Wardsweb Voice of the Theater
Albert said:
Keep the drivers and ditch the cabinets and flares. Replace the midbass flare with some of the 80Hz hypex from Edgarhorn (515 will be a perfect fit) for $200/ch for the flare kit. You simply need to build a box around them. Then get a pair of 500Hz saladbowl trax flares from the same place for the 802s. Tractrix horns sound completely different to exponentials.
My system is being built along similar lines, but I'm doing all the designing and building myself. Cost's too much to import Bruces parts, and I'm enjoying the learning in the process.
bedgar@socal.rr.com
Email him and ask for his literature, and for another $20 he'll send you photocopies of all his articles he's published in Speaker Builder over the years, which are well worth the money for horn heads. Reference works.
Personally, I think soundstage is an overrated artifact, an 'audiophile' masturbation not related to enjoying music. Nice if it's there, but not worth building a system around. That's not to say the system I've suggested won't image.
OB's will probably get you the soundstage you want, but give up lots of the <b>life</b> in the music. Your choice.
Stunning speakers..very nice job!
How do they compare with the theater model with the horn on top? Is the 825 a ported cab? if so, how did you get away with filling the majority of the port up with horn?
I might just try this trick with my 828's..well at least the horn mounted in the port, I don't know if I could bring myself to cover up that battleship grey paint though
One other question, did you keep the allignment of the VC's the same for the bass and the horn driver or did you have to fudge a little?
Thanks,
Albert
How do they compare with the theater model with the horn on top? Is the 825 a ported cab? if so, how did you get away with filling the majority of the port up with horn?
I might just try this trick with my 828's..well at least the horn mounted in the port, I don't know if I could bring myself to cover up that battleship grey paint though
One other question, did you keep the allignment of the VC's the same for the bass and the horn driver or did you have to fudge a little?
Thanks,
Albert
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