First Speaker Project - Basic rules?

[wiredmonkey]

Hi all,

I have decided to embark on a project to build my first pair of speakers for my lounge room. This is a direct consequence of my absolute delight with the results of my first gainclone I recently built

Basically before I start I thought I'd ask for some basic advice. I'm quite savvy on the electronics side of things, I understand the idea of making a good crossover and other potentially required filters (which I assume is the only electronics required for this?).

I'd ideally like to use any of the drivers found at

www.altronics.com.au (they have peerless drivers which im uneducatedly leaning towards - are they any good?)
or
www.jaycar.com.au

as I get a pretty good deal with those guys.

In terms of cabinets I am clueless. Besides looking at suggested volume on the speaker page I know nothing! Is MDF okay to work with - I see a lot of extravagant materials used but I'm reluctant to use those as I'm sure I'll stuff up bits and pieces first time around.

Any links to basic cabinet designs that you guys would suggest to get a newbie started?

Finally what can I expect the sound quality to be in comparison to a commercial offering of the same value (about $AUD300ish)? The gainclone only cost a couple of hundred dollars with overkill components and it sounds amazing - can I expect similar results at this price point with speakers?

Cheers and thanks in advance!

[PeteMcK]

If you're planning a crossover, perhaps you're in the wrong forum (try 'Loudspeakers')... Jaycar & Altronics don't really have any good fullrange drivers anyway. Their drivers are OK, if you get the right Peerless drivers they can be very good. However, if you have a trade account you can get much better prices on Peerless at WES Components; If you're prepared to spend a little more to get a jump in quality, check out the drivers on offer at Darcher Audio or the Seas drivers at Aranmar.

I have used Jaycar drivers, but don't really have a complete design I can give you (I'm halfway through a design using 2x CW2135 per side). Andy Graddon has used Jaycar drivers quite a lot, check out his site, although the designs may be a stretch for a novice.

Box design - best way is to download WinISD Pro (it's free and easy to use), put in the parameters of the driver, and see how it will behave. MDF is an excellent choice of material.

As to how the result will compare with commercial offerings, well, it's all in the implementation.....

[sreten]

Hi,

My first point of advice would be not to post on the full range forum
if you are seeking a balanced perspective of basic loudspeaker issues.

From what I understand driver availability in Oz is poor, e.g. the
Peerless drivers at Altronics seem to be virtually unknown in the
rest of the (english speaking ?) world.

There are alternative viewpoints to the FR forum, but bang for
budget buck your batting on very a sticky wicket, 300AUD is
not a lot of money to work with for "normal" louspeakers.

You are probably in the correct forum if you want something
"amazing" on a budget, some of the FR cabinet designs would
cost a small fortune if applied to a commercial design.

If you stay here no doubt the following will apply :

Use a FR driver, with /without a BSC filter, with /without a supertweeter.
Build it out of ply, build a design detailed at http://www.planet10-hifi.com/

My advice would be :
Go for a single cone FR + inexpensive supertweeter.
MLTQWT's (e.g. the Metronome) is a very attractive approach.
With a 4 ohm capable amplifier consider a 0.5 way (additional
bass only near identical driver) for baffle step compensation.
(i.e. consider a larger FR with BSC filter or twin smaller 0.5 way.)

/sreten.

[PeteMcK]

In my post above, 'trade account' should read 'ABN'

If you're prepared to spend around $600, check out the Seas 2-ways on Zaph's site: http://www.zaphaudio.com/

A couple of things you haven't told us - what sort of music, how loud, and how big a speaker are you prepared to build?

(my CW2135 (6.5") box is 54 Litres, which I've now decided is too big.... A single one of these per side would be OK in a box around 30L, but they only respond up to ~1600Hz, so need an appropriately matched tweeter, i.e. one with an Fs around 800Hz or lower)
I've also modelled the Altronics C3084 (5"), which looks good on paper, and in theory should respond higher, but that would need to be tested (Box size around 20L). Both of these would make a reasonable quality 2-way for a very good price, but if you want heaps of bass at high volume, then you'd need something larger, or add a sub later.

[wiredmonkey]

I do apologise posting in the wrong forum, I only just realised this.

Oh so much to learn! Well I'll answer the last question first as it is the easiest and will consider and research the other suggestions given tonight at home.

$600 could be doable - I'd just have to wait a little while longer.

I don't want anything too big - typical monitor speakers on a stand would be perfect for the lounge room.

Basically I listen to a lot of acoustic music, jazz and vocal (oh and video games). I don't really need anything insanely loud - I prefer insane tear worthy clarity . Living in an apartment with considerate neighbours I can turn it up a bit but nothing like a home theater.

Thanks again all!

[rjbond3rd]

Given your preference for clarity and your musical tastes, I don't think you're in the wrong forum.

[Jim Shearer]

Originally posted by wiredmonkey

I don't want anything too big - typical monitor speakers on a stand would be perfect for the lounge room.

Basically I listen to a lot of acoustic music, jazz and vocal (oh and video games). I don't really need anything insanely loud - I prefer insane tear worthy clarity . Living in an apartment with considerate neighbours I can turn it up a bit but nothing like a home theater.

Thanks again all!

That sounds spot-on for a single driver! So you didn't post in the wrong area after all. The Force has brought you here. Do not deny your destiny! Repudiate the Evil Cross-Over!

If you like stand mounts, check out Planet-10's Fonken w/ Fostex FE127. If you want a small, high WAF floor stander, look at the Metronome w/ Fostex FE108Esigma. I love the pair I built.

Then if you want a fuller bottom end, add a sub.

Cheers, Jim

[PeteMcK]

given those tastes in music, a well designed 2-way is probably your best bet. I think it comes down to whether you want to build once and end up with speakers that you will be happy with for a long time, - in that case I'd go for the SEAS metal cone design on Zaph's site, http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html , or whether you want to save money and are prepared to be a little more adventurous and learn about speaker design. In that case I'd try the Altronics C3084 & a suitable tweeter from them (total cost ~$150), and ask heaps of questions on the Loudspeaker forum...

(Jim, crossovers aren't evil, just usually badly implemented.....)

[Cal Weldon]

Moved to Loudspeakers. If you decide to go with a single driver I can move it back or you can start a new thread.

[Moondog55]

Probably the best thing is to check out the search function for the Vifa reference system.
I haven't made it myself and the drivers are getting harder to find but I think Speakerbits still have a few Vifa P-13's left

diyAudio reference speaker project

Rabbitz also has excellent information on his site.