Just a liitle more sonic impressions - this is something I just wrote to Fran (jeez this thread is getting incestuous, lol)
Today is the first time I've been able to give the Jordans a good listen & I'm amazed at the clarity & bass of these little boxes on all kinds of music. The image just snaps into place & is presented with an even handedness to all frequencies.
Some of this is also due to the dig amp as I noticed it also with test speakers - nothing gets over-emphasised, just presented as is. My memory of some music (like Steely Dan,for instance) is that when there is a solo, the soloist gets emphasised in the mix as if he's stepping out from the band (not a bad effect) but I notice the solo now being performed more in unison with the rest of the music.
I see Fran just posted before me - good point, I didn't think of the ports!
Today is the first time I've been able to give the Jordans a good listen & I'm amazed at the clarity & bass of these little boxes on all kinds of music. The image just snaps into place & is presented with an even handedness to all frequencies.
Some of this is also due to the dig amp as I noticed it also with test speakers - nothing gets over-emphasised, just presented as is. My memory of some music (like Steely Dan,for instance) is that when there is a solo, the soloist gets emphasised in the mix as if he's stepping out from the band (not a bad effect) but I notice the solo now being performed more in unison with the rest of the music.
I see Fran just posted before me - good point, I didn't think of the ports!
Neat build. Glad to hear you like the sound. As to finish, I like the idea of piano black, have you considered piano white?.
You might consider cutting a "grille" out of 1/4" ply, or MDF to fit the perimeter of the cabinet rounding the edges, painting the "grille" flat black and glueing some thin doubleknit (also black) over the "grille" and using some glued-in magnets to mount it? If you opted for the piano white finish, you could use a medium grey, on the frame and fabric.....By glueing the magnets in under the finish, you could choose to " go bare " when playing, and cover them when not etc.
Just a couple of suggestions.
John
You might consider cutting a "grille" out of 1/4" ply, or MDF to fit the perimeter of the cabinet rounding the edges, painting the "grille" flat black and glueing some thin doubleknit (also black) over the "grille" and using some glued-in magnets to mount it? If you opted for the piano white finish, you could use a medium grey, on the frame and fabric.....By glueing the magnets in under the finish, you could choose to " go bare " when playing, and cover them when not etc.
Just a couple of suggestions.
John
I believe I found the ideal finish for these Jordans & it was under my nose all the time & had been posted here before - Arousal A1 speakers in piano black http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/aurousal_a1_e.html
Looks fantastic - about the same size box, I think and reading that review the only fault he found was the lower bass which I believe has been sorted with this design.
Going to run a speaker test CD today to listen to response! Unfortunately I have no mics to record & plot response - maybe I can borrow one
Can someone say what is the best test set-up for speaker test & plot? I have binko's? test CD - a free download
Looks fantastic - about the same size box, I think and reading that review the only fault he found was the lower bass which I believe has been sorted with this design.
Going to run a speaker test CD today to listen to response! Unfortunately I have no mics to record & plot response - maybe I can borrow one
Can someone say what is the best test set-up for speaker test & plot? I have binko's? test CD - a free download
OK quick test with Bink's CD
Nothing from speakers until 40Hz & at 60Hz seem to have full volume - this is by ear playing the test tracks for each of the frequencies. The interesting thing is that there is virtually nothing with ear to speaker it all comes out the port at the lowest freqs
So what does all this mean? I would need test equipment to plot the -3dB freq but the Aurousal (freudian slip in the spelling in the last post - I'm just so excited with these speakers I guess!) spec is -3dB at 44Hz so maybe similar to these boxes?
Nothing from speakers until 40Hz & at 60Hz seem to have full volume - this is by ear playing the test tracks for each of the frequencies. The interesting thing is that there is virtually nothing with ear to speaker it all comes out the port at the lowest freqs
So what does all this mean? I would need test equipment to plot the -3dB freq but the Aurousal (freudian slip in the spelling in the last post - I'm just so excited with these speakers I guess!) spec is -3dB at 44Hz so maybe similar to these boxes?
I used the same website for inspiration while building my speakers. See my thread for details VSOB
Very happy with what was achieved. Still need a little more LF but entirely listenable with no downsides to the sound that I can notice. Glad to see someone else trying his technique out. I plan to biamp my system and add helper woofers to fill in below 70hz. I made many changes to the port size and kept getting more LF volume. Ended up with 1 1/8 ports. It never made things go lower but the volume increased with each decrease in port size.
Very happy with what was achieved. Still need a little more LF but entirely listenable with no downsides to the sound that I can notice. Glad to see someone else trying his technique out. I plan to biamp my system and add helper woofers to fill in below 70hz. I made many changes to the port size and kept getting more LF volume. Ended up with 1 1/8 ports. It never made things go lower but the volume increased with each decrease in port size.
Aha DJ interesting twist (I just couldn't resist the pun) on his design!
Also interesting that you say your bass gets louder as you open up the port, he didn't find this on my box design when he enlarged the port size!
My tests above lead me to think that the sonic fins are not providing any more bass than the box alone. This might not be too surprising as the box was not designed for this Jordan driver & I think the way these TL designs work is by the box being tuned to the driver or am I way off here?
Anyway, you're happy with these FE126E drivers in that box? WoodturnerFran, will be interested in that news as he is looking to find a good alternative for the Fonkens for his FE126E drivers!
Edit: My next question is - if I were building these type of boxes for the Jordans again what dimensions would I need to change to tune the box to the drivers? This is the question I asked at the start of the thread but thought there might be more chance of an answer now!
Also interesting that you say your bass gets louder as you open up the port, he didn't find this on my box design when he enlarged the port size!
My tests above lead me to think that the sonic fins are not providing any more bass than the box alone. This might not be too surprising as the box was not designed for this Jordan driver & I think the way these TL designs work is by the box being tuned to the driver or am I way off here?
Anyway, you're happy with these FE126E drivers in that box? WoodturnerFran, will be interested in that news as he is looking to find a good alternative for the Fonkens for his FE126E drivers!
Edit: My next question is - if I were building these type of boxes for the Jordans again what dimensions would I need to change to tune the box to the drivers? This is the question I asked at the start of the thread but thought there might be more chance of an answer now!
Not larger smaller. Either I have a typo somewhere or you missunderstood me. The smaller the port size the louder the LF became. It just doesn't go any lower in Hz. Yes I am quite happy with the sound of the 126 in my box.
If the fins do nothing then the guy with the website is spending a lot of time doing nothing. What makes you think they do nothing?
If the fins do nothing then the guy with the website is spending a lot of time doing nothing. What makes you think they do nothing?
Sorry, DJ,
I did misread you - yes this is what the designer also found - in this case smaller is better!
The thinkingI had about the fins was that the Aurousal box speakers had a -3dB of 44Hz - this is a similar sized box with a port - no internal baffles AFAIK & I reckon my box has about the same low end response.
Now this is all very unscientific as I didn't measure the response, just used a test disk & listened!
Don't get me wrong I love the sound of these speakers, I'm just in analysis mode now after the initial wow mode and quite quickly I'll be in "I wonder can they be improved" mode. Oh well, I guess I just have to live with myself
I did misread you - yes this is what the designer also found - in this case smaller is better!
The thinkingI had about the fins was that the Aurousal box speakers had a -3dB of 44Hz - this is a similar sized box with a port - no internal baffles AFAIK & I reckon my box has about the same low end response.
Now this is all very unscientific as I didn't measure the response, just used a test disk & listened!
Don't get me wrong I love the sound of these speakers, I'm just in analysis mode now after the initial wow mode and quite quickly I'll be in "I wonder can they be improved" mode. Oh well, I guess I just have to live with myself
That is as scientific as I get as well. In my opinion the test CD is good enough assuming you use the same source and volume settings. I'm sure it becomes less useful as your system gets better but just as a rough guage of wether certain Hz are audible it does the job. What is harder to do with it is tell relative loudness between the sounds. Time to get a mic it that becomes needed.
Are you saying that all we built was an overly complicated bass reflex box? If so at least they look cool inside
Are you saying that all we built was an overly complicated bass reflex box? If so at least they look cool inside
Hi DJ,
Don't get me wrong, I like these speakers a lot, I'm just being Devil's Advocate and wondering aloud - as you say even if they are just over complicated bass reflex boxes, we've learned something.
I'm bringing them back down to the Fran today for another listen & a swap out of the Jordan drives for Fostex FE126E drives!
Will report back
Don't get me wrong, I like these speakers a lot, I'm just being Devil's Advocate and wondering aloud - as you say even if they are just over complicated bass reflex boxes, we've learned something.
I'm bringing them back down to the Fran today for another listen & a swap out of the Jordan drives for Fostex FE126E drives!
Will report back
The Aurousals (and the generic Jordan 8 litre reflex) sound best with BSC. If you've achieved a similar sound balance without BSC, you've already achieved a speaker with higher sensitivity (the BSC loses around 3dB). At the very least the constuction method is going to aid rigidity and disrupt internal reflections.
Well worth running some test tones through the speaker - you may be able to find a freeware or shareware program to produce some which you can burn to CD. I did this some time ago with an old Macromedia sound app and it's proved very useful.
Well worth running some test tones through the speaker - you may be able to find a freeware or shareware program to produce some which you can burn to CD. I did this some time ago with an old Macromedia sound app and it's proved very useful.
Hi Colin,
That's one of the things we'll be trying this afternoon with these speakers, a BSC, which is currently on the Fostex FE126E Fonkens that WoodturnerFran has built.
It may not be the correct BSC for these Jordans but it will give me a general idea of direction the sound is heading.
I have a test CD which I downloaded free (bink's CD) which has all the test tones on it!
That's one of the things we'll be trying this afternoon with these speakers, a BSC, which is currently on the Fostex FE126E Fonkens that WoodturnerFran has built.
It may not be the correct BSC for these Jordans but it will give me a general idea of direction the sound is heading.
I have a test CD which I downloaded free (bink's CD) which has all the test tones on it!
Just found this thread.....
I found that spiral site last year and built a set with Fostex 167s.
I don't have any testing equipment( I would like to, on the cheap),
so I can't give you meaningful figures. I guessed at a sized based on the pine boards salvaged from the mother-in-law's old wheelchair ramp that I stained mahogany for the fronts and tops.
I used 3/4 inch plywood for the rest and stuffed the top, behind the driver with pillow wool. After sealing all of the boards and edges against leakage, I cut 3 1 1/2 inch holes at the bottom for the bass and use them for my mains. When they're cranked with music I can feel the air push the hairs on the back of my hand and they sound pretty good.
I found that spiral site last year and built a set with Fostex 167s.
I don't have any testing equipment( I would like to, on the cheap),
so I can't give you meaningful figures. I guessed at a sized based on the pine boards salvaged from the mother-in-law's old wheelchair ramp that I stained mahogany for the fronts and tops.
I used 3/4 inch plywood for the rest and stuffed the top, behind the driver with pillow wool. After sealing all of the boards and edges against leakage, I cut 3 1 1/2 inch holes at the bottom for the bass and use them for my mains. When they're cranked with music I can feel the air push the hairs on the back of my hand and they sound pretty good.
Ok, so I was impressed enough with the sound of my FE127E in the 3D spiral horn I had put together for Jkeny to go and build another set specially for myself. The glue is drying as I type so I'm hoping to get a listen tomorrow night. This build went very smooth - its a lot easier when you know what you're doing!
I do think these are going to be a real winner here, although I appreciate that some might consider them a difficult build. honestly though, I think they would be a lot easier than a BIB or Chang etc just because of the sheer size. Only takes about half a sheet of ply to make a pair and that makes life easy when you are working on your own. Hard to cut a 8x4 on your own.
Bear in mind that these are really designed for the FE**6E series rather than the FE**7E.
Could someone explain to me in laymans terms what exactly the differences between FE126 and FE127 without resorting to equations? And don't forget to include why one would like a horn enclosure while the other might prefer some other box.
TIA,
Fran
I do think these are going to be a real winner here, although I appreciate that some might consider them a difficult build. honestly though, I think they would be a lot easier than a BIB or Chang etc just because of the sheer size. Only takes about half a sheet of ply to make a pair and that makes life easy when you are working on your own. Hard to cut a 8x4 on your own.
Bear in mind that these are really designed for the FE**6E series rather than the FE**7E.
Could someone explain to me in laymans terms what exactly the differences between FE126 and FE127 without resorting to equations? And don't forget to include why one would like a horn enclosure while the other might prefer some other box.
TIA,
Fran
No I have mine for over a year sitting on a shelf - my recent mishap with Rogers LS3/5As spurred me to do somtheing with them but really it was WoodturnerFran's that we should all thank for this (I do) - I wouldn't have attempted this build myself!
Now what both him & I would like to find out is the principle behind the speakers operation and how it can be scaled for different drivers - what dimensions/parameters are important/critical?.
Can anybody suggest what tests we can perform to aid in this analysis and what is the best method for these tests?
Now what both him & I would like to find out is the principle behind the speakers operation and how it can be scaled for different drivers - what dimensions/parameters are important/critical?.
Can anybody suggest what tests we can perform to aid in this analysis and what is the best method for these tests?
So if the 126 has a lower Qt than the 127, then the 126 needs an enclosure like a horn that will emphasise the bass more..... have I got that right?
Doesn't that mean that if I put a higher Qt driver in a box designed for a lower Qt that I would end up with a boomy overblown bass sound (or at least a poor bass quality)?
Fran
Doesn't that mean that if I put a higher Qt driver in a box designed for a lower Qt that I would end up with a boomy overblown bass sound (or at least a poor bass quality)?
Fran
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