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Old 14th April 2008, 12:24 PM   #521
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc

I think you should speak for yourself.
Hi,

And so should Bud, being the point.
The jury is still out on whether we are being sold snake oil.

/sreten.
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Old 14th April 2008, 12:54 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally posted by sreten


Hi,

And so should Bud, being the point.
The jury is still out on whether we are being sold snake oil.

/sreten.

Not snake oil, model paint. Bud has retained a position in marketing for Testors .
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Old 14th April 2008, 01:36 PM   #523
dlr is offline dlr  United States
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Bud, everything you hear as changes is nothing more than altered frequency response, that is evident. You may not have intended enabl to do that or may have incorrectly assumed it was not that, but the fact is that this is the extent of the change. If one is to hear a change, the FR must change, there' s no getting around that fact.

You may claim what you will, but the vast majority of drivers do not have something being masked that enabl "uncovers". Well, make that good drivers. Bad ones mask a lot by introducing a lot of linear distortion due to bad frequency response. If you do plan to continue making that claim, please take it to the other thread, it has no place here unless there is other than anecdotal evidence.

As to this thread, I would be very interested to see someone with an already very good, very expensive 3-way system take on the challenge of painting their drivers, all of them since you say they should, and providing before/after measurements. I personally see no benefit, but there must be someone out there with measuring capability and a big-buck multi-way system willing to subject their drivers to this and documenting the changes. Surely someone will take your word for it, no matter the cost of their drivers or system.

So how about it? Is anybody out there reading this inclined to do so? Please jump in if you are.

Heck Bud, you're so sure of improvement to all drivers, I suggest that you offer your assurance with a quarantee of driver replacement should they find it to be less than a dramatic change or, dare I say it, detrimental.

Dave
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Old 14th April 2008, 01:57 PM   #524
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlr



As to this thread, I would be very interested to see someone with an already very good, very expensive 3-way system take on the challenge of painting their drivers, all of them since you say they should, and providing before/after measurements. I personally see no benefit, but there must be someone out there with measuring capability and a big-buck multi-way system willing to subject their drivers to this and documenting the changes. Surely someone will take your word for it, no matter the cost of their drivers or system.

So how about it? Is anybody out there reading this inclined to do so? Please jump in if you are.

Heck Bud, you're so sure of improvement to all drivers, I suggest that you offer your assurance with a quarantee of driver replacement should they find it to be less than a dramatic change or, dare I say it, detrimental.

Dave
Obviously you have no experience with the big buck systems. The only reason why one would not want to modify them is that the market value is not determined by how good it sounds, but just the brand and the make. If you modify it, you would have a hard time reselling it because it is nolonger authentic. This is what I understand from second hand dealers of these kinds of systems. Now tell us what is a good big bucks system you think is a good candidate?
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Old 14th April 2008, 02:26 PM   #525
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Default testing systems

Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc

Obviously you have no experience with the big buck systems. The only reason why one would not want to modify them is that the market value is not determined by how good it sounds, but just the brand and the make. If you modify it, you would have a hard time reselling it because it is nolonger authentic. This is what I understand from second hand dealers of these kinds of systems. Now tell us what is a good big bucks system you think is a good candidate?
The heck with (current day) big buck systems... there must be litterally thousands of AR, KLH, Advent, Altec VOT's, JBL,Klipsch etc... from the wonder years of Hi-Fi floating around that have been characterized to death that could be easily "painted up", after confirming prior measurements, then retested after "tweaking".

Just check out audiokarma.org...

I'd do it, on my Advent 6002's, except I'm happy using them as is as rear channels in my 7.1 main system with room eq.

John L.
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Old 14th April 2008, 02:37 PM   #526
dlr is offline dlr  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc

Obviously you have no experience with the big buck systems. The only reason why one would not want to modify them is that the market value is not determined by how good it sounds, but just the brand and the make. If you modify it, you would have a hard time reselling it because it is nolonger authentic. This is what I understand from second hand dealers of these kinds of systems. Now tell us what is a good big bucks system you think is a good candidate?
You haven't a clue as to what systems I have heard, but that is immaterial. There are likely many reasons why one would not want to modify a system. You assume much from the standpoint of little or no knowledge at times.

Big buck systems include those designed and/or built DIY. I'll let the people spending the money determine what they consider big buck systems, not you. A DIYer may spend quite a bit. It's more likely that a DIYer will tweak a driver as well, I suspect. Since Bud believes that ALMOST ALL drivers will benefit, ANY big-buck system, commercial or DIY, will supposedly benefit. By his reckoning, those commercial ones you likely would disdain would suddenly be vastly improved. Bud believes very sincerely that something is "missing from almost all drivers and the uncovering of those characteristics in almost all drivers is a beneficial change."

This is just another of your frequent straw-man posts. I await Bud's response.

Dave
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Old 14th April 2008, 03:40 PM   #527
dlr is offline dlr  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlr

I await Bud's response.

Dave
Let me correct that. It's not Bud's response I'm looking for, it's the owners of self-described big buck systems, commercial or DIY. They have been notably absent, especially those with the ability to measure. It's more likely that this will be a DIYer that has invested some real bucks in their own system. I'm waiting to see someone, anyone, with a good 3-way do the mods and measurements to all of their drivers as suggested.

Dave
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Old 14th April 2008, 04:04 PM   #528
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Default Beam me up Scottie ......

Hmmm........

I do not know quite what to make of post # 511 (or #512).

# 511 is remit to talk nonsense and backtrack on anything that does
not suit you. I'm staggered at the lack of sheer common sense in # 511.

Quote:
BudP
It seems silly to me to continue arguing about whether or not
EnABL is a "tweak" or a "serious" improvement. Who cares?
I do for one and that is the point. You do not seem to care that your
descriptions of EnABL have been from the word go technically wrong
and are still wrong, and your subjective claims of spectacular results
and subjective elimination of effects do not add up at all.

(Using my certain ability to reasonably abstract and analyse reality.)

It looks like snake oil, feels like snake oil, smells like snake oil, it is ....

/sreten.
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Old 14th April 2008, 04:59 PM   #529
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlr


You haven't a clue as to what systems I have heard, but that is immaterial. There are likely many reasons why one would not want to modify a system. You assume much from the standpoint of little or no knowledge at times.

Big buck systems include those designed and/or built DIY. I'll let the people spending the money determine what they consider big buck systems, not you. A DIYer may spend quite a bit. It's more likely that a DIYer will tweak a driver as well, I suspect. Since Bud believes that ALMOST ALL drivers will benefit, ANY big-buck system, commercial or DIY, will supposedly benefit. By his reckoning, those commercial ones you likely would disdain would suddenly be vastly improved. Bud believes very sincerely that something is "missing from almost all drivers and the uncovering of those characteristics in almost all drivers is a beneficial change."

This is just another of your frequent straw-man posts. I await Bud's response.

Dave

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Old 14th April 2008, 05:03 PM   #530
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlr


Let me correct that. It's not Bud's response I'm looking for, it's the owners of self-described big buck systems, commercial or DIY. They have been notably absent, especially those with the ability to measure. It's more likely that this will be a DIYer that has invested some real bucks in their own system. I'm waiting to see someone, anyone, with a good 3-way do the mods and measurements to all of their drivers as suggested.

Dave

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