EnABL - Technical discussion - Page 143

DavidL · 19th January 2013, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlp

Wow, so much passion about something that's so apparently meaningless. Dang, fill the bowl again. This show ain't over yet...

Speaking of meaningless, how are those Jupiter caps you are considering buying that cost $199 for a 15 uF cap going to work out for ya?

DavidL · 19th January 2013, 07:59 PM

@Richard Ellis, yeah there's going to be SO many measurements over in that thread and so much "proof".

sreten · 08:17 PM

Hi,

I see 5 years on, BudP has refined the art of talking selfserving BS far
more than any technical understanding of the nonsense he patented.

rgds, sreten.

The lack of any technical credibility and integrity is unbelievable.
You really have to live in a different world to enjoy such nonsense.

Richard Ellis · 19th January 2013, 10:11 PM

Note, there seems to be no application onto.....say a tweeter dome...or woofer, or a large dome mid-range driver?????
It seems to be only the FR, Rice paper, for cones, lovingly grown in the Suzswahn province, harvested only on the Tuesday following the Summer soltice. Blessed by 72 Vestal virgins....handled only by the local Monks............only to be assembled in chinese factories by workers under the age of 10.

_________________________________________________R ick.........

jimbro · 19th January 2013, 10:17 PM

Got a copy of Sound Reproduction by Toole for Christmas and early in the book he talks about how science cannot describe music. "Nor can science differentiate, by measurement, between the mellifluous qualities of trumpet intonations by Wynton Marsalis and those of a music student who simply hits the notes. Those are distinctions
that must be made subjectively, by listening."
I don't believe measurements can tell you everything.
MarkAudio was sent a pair of enabled drivers but could measure no differences between it and the stock drivers, but it can be heard. He believes it's basically a dampening of the cone. He is, or is going to, work with Dave of Planet10 to produce a line of enabled drivers. This is a driver designer of great integrity. Of course that wont stop some of you from launching personal attacks against him. I mean - if he sells drivers then of course he can't be trusted right?

jimbro · 19th January 2013, 10:20 PM

Richard - Planet10 sells dome tweeters and woofers that have been enabled and will instruct you on how to DIY. No Monks required.

dlr · 19th January 2013, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbro

MarkAudio was sent a pair of enabled drivers but could measure no differences between it and the stock drivers, but it can be heard. He believes it's basically a dampening of the cone. He is, or is going to, work with Dave of Planet10 to produce a line of enabled drivers. This is a driver designer of great integrity. Of course that wont stop some of you from launching personal attacks against him. I mean - if he sells drivers then of course he can't be trusted right?

Was this a set measured before, then after or just a comparison of different drivers, one treated the other not?

If it was the latter, it's not valid by any stretch of the imagination. If it was the former, then the measurements are in question. There is nothing especially difficult in making adequate measurements. Even the smallest change made to a driver is in almost all cases measurable. I've done it, literally hundreds of times, small and large. If one cannot measure a difference, either the mod is literally an insignificant change or there was something done wrong in making the measurements.

If these tests were made, have them posted, here, to be reviewed and debated with all the details related to them. I'm sure whoever treated them would likely be more than willing to give permission. If not, it's simply more hand-waving. That is for the other thread, not this one.

Dave

tuxedocivic · 19th January 2013, 11:47 PM

I thought Mark said the enabled version measured to have more "emittance". When I asked him what is emittance and how do you measure it, he said it was complicated and would get back to me. That was a while ago, just how I remember it.

jimbro · 20th January 2013, 02:41 AM

That's a valid point dlr. I believe Mark measures all his drivers before shipping. Whether he keeps this data or not I don't know. I think Planet10 enabled the drivers and I'm sure he does before and after measurements. Maybe one of them will weigh in. At any rate, at least we're having a conversation and not just name calling.

Richard Ellis · 20th January 2013, 03:05 AM

Place: Somewhere deep in the bowels of the JBL engineering department.
Time: The recent past or the near future.

Engineer#1" Take a look here"
Engineer#2" What happened, somebody spill some paint....that's our C500G"
#1"Yeah yeah of course it is , somebody is putting paint on our drivers, says it makes it sound 'better'.
#2" Sounds better? where's the data?
#1" There is none....just some anecdotal data"
#2" We spent some 800 Man-hours developing that driver, remember?"
#1" Yeah, yeah"
#2That problem with the dust-cap cone interface? It tool us forever to figure that one out, and this guy is painting the cones?
#1"and the impulse response, this is going to mess everything up"
#2" I'd betcha this guy is charging an arm & a leg to paint these"
#1"That's the thing, this guy is just telling people how to do it yourself....but he will do it for you, for a 'nominal' charge."
#2" Does this guy really think we haven't already explored this approach.......what was it....1972?"
#1" Ya know....there really are some loons out there"
#2" I just hope there won't be a batch of them coming into warranty because some clown uses some paint that reacts with the substrate on our cones"

__________________________________________________ ____Rick........

19th January 2013, 08:12 PM	#1423
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, I see 5 years on, BudP has refined the art of talking selfserving BS far more than any technical understanding of the nonsense he patented. rgds, sreten. The lack of any technical credibility and integrity is unbelievable. You really have to live in a different world to enjoy such nonsense. __________________ There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow Last edited by sreten; 19th January 2013 at 08:17 PM.

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19th January 2013, 07:59 PM	#1422
DavidL diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2010	@Richard Ellis, yeah there's going to be SO many measurements over in that thread and so much "proof".

19th January 2013, 10:11 PM	#1424
Richard Ellis diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mar del Plata, a BIG seasonal getaway city, can see the Ocean from our residence.	Note, there seems to be no application onto.....say a tweeter dome...or woofer, or a large dome mid-range driver????? It seems to be only the FR, Rice paper, for cones, lovingly grown in the Suzswahn province, harvested only on the Tuesday following the Summer soltice. Blessed by 72 Vestal virgins....handled only by the local Monks............only to be assembled in chinese factories by workers under the age of 10. _________________________________________________R ick.........

19th January 2013, 10:17 PM	#1425
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	Got a copy of Sound Reproduction by Toole for Christmas and early in the book he talks about how science cannot describe music. "Nor can science differentiate, by measurement, between the mellifluous qualities of trumpet intonations by Wynton Marsalis and those of a music student who simply hits the notes. Those are distinctions that must be made subjectively, by listening." I don't believe measurements can tell you everything. MarkAudio was sent a pair of enabled drivers but could measure no differences between it and the stock drivers, but it can be heard. He believes it's basically a dampening of the cone. He is, or is going to, work with Dave of Planet10 to produce a line of enabled drivers. This is a driver designer of great integrity. Of course that wont stop some of you from launching personal attacks against him. I mean - if he sells drivers then of course he can't be trusted right?

19th January 2013, 10:20 PM	#1426
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	Richard - Planet10 sells dome tweeters and woofers that have been enabled and will instruct you on how to DIY. No Monks required.

19th January 2013, 11:47 PM	#1428
tuxedocivic diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ladysmith, BC	I thought Mark said the enabled version measured to have more "emittance". When I asked him what is emittance and how do you measure it, he said it was complicated and would get back to me. That was a while ago, just how I remember it.

20th January 2013, 02:41 AM	#1429
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	That's a valid point dlr. I believe Mark measures all his drivers before shipping. Whether he keeps this data or not I don't know. I think Planet10 enabled the drivers and I'm sure he does before and after measurements. Maybe one of them will weigh in. At any rate, at least we're having a conversation and not just name calling.

20th January 2013, 03:05 AM	#1430
Richard Ellis diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mar del Plata, a BIG seasonal getaway city, can see the Ocean from our residence.	Place: Somewhere deep in the bowels of the JBL engineering department. Time: The recent past or the near future. Engineer#1" Take a look here" Engineer#2" What happened, somebody spill some paint....that's our C500G" #1"Yeah yeah of course it is , somebody is putting paint on our drivers, says it makes it sound 'better'. #2" Sounds better? where's the data? #1" There is none....just some anecdotal data" #2" We spent some 800 Man-hours developing that driver, remember?" #1" Yeah, yeah" #2That problem with the dust-cap cone interface? It tool us forever to figure that one out, and this guy is painting the cones? #1"and the impulse response, this is going to mess everything up" #2" I'd betcha this guy is charging an arm & a leg to paint these" #1"That's the thing, this guy is just telling people how to do it yourself....but he will do it for you, for a 'nominal' charge." #2" Does this guy really think we haven't already explored this approach.......what was it....1972?" #1" Ya know....there really are some loons out there" #2" I just hope there won't be a batch of them coming into warranty because some clown uses some paint that reacts with the substrate on our cones" __________________________________________________ ____Rick........