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Old 13th March 2008, 12:27 AM   #1
discl is offline discl  Australia
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Default Dynaudio Confidence 5 crossover (t330d+m560d)

Hi,

Does anyone have any info on the old dynaudio confidence 5 crossover (the one with the t330d tweeter and m560d midrange) or any experience integrating these two drivers?

I'm looking for what slope/frequency was used to crossover between these two drivers.

I've been told that it's possible to use 800hz,2000hz for a 3way at 6db/octave but when looking at the frequency response graphs on http://www.gattiweb.com/dynaudio.html they would barely be more than 9db down at fs when using 6db/octave?

I've also seen the crossover for the new confidence range (which uses two esotar tweeters) and is claimed to be 6db/octave but when looking at the components i find it hard to believe that they really are 6db/octave as described.

Any information would be greatly appreciated,
Radek
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Old 13th March 2008, 01:39 PM   #2
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Hi discl,
If you want to go on with this project...
I have this post in the back of my mind.
You don't give enough details, aside the 2 speakers.
I don't have that much of an experience, neither with 1.order xovers, because the phase is very difficult to match, but they have a very good impulse response though.

What is on the side of the woofer, for a 3-way? All the components matter, you know, for this effect even the box (size, alignment, BSC). What are you building or repairing (for what use), to match with what (sub, active...).

Take care.
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Old 14th March 2008, 12:57 AM   #3
discl is offline discl  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inductor
Hi discl,
If you want to go on with this project...
I have this post in the back of my mind.
You don't give enough details, aside the 2 speakers.
I don't have that much of an experience, neither with 1.order xovers, because the phase is very difficult to match, but they have a very good impulse response though.

What is on the side of the woofer, for a 3-way? All the components matter, you know, for this effect even the box (size, alignment, BSC). What are you building or repairing (for what use), to match with what (sub, active...).

Take care.

Hi,

I havent experimented with bsc yet, the final boxes are still being built however I have prototyped the design using a square mdf box.

The whole system is going to be 3way passive + active sub modules per channel.

The 3way passive part of it is:
dynaudio t330d esotar (crossed at 2khz)
dynaudio m560d esotar (lowpass at 800, highpass at 4k)
then either two dynaudio 15w75s (~25l vented box) or a single 30w100 (35l sealed box, lowpass 80, highpass 800)

Then each channel will have an active module with two hivi D10G woofers (http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=64) 24db/octave crossed at ~80hz

When I prototyped these speakers the only distortion that I heard was a raspy lowend to vocals on about 5% of the tracks that I played. It sounded like a distorted overdub of the voice and seemed to be coming out of only the left tweeter. My friend (who's been building speakers for 14 years now) blamed it on the recording but I'm worried that the tweeter or maybe the midrange may be getting too close to fs.

Any information you can give about the t330d/m560d drivers being used with a first order crossover and being crossed over that close to fs would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 14th March 2008, 01:17 AM   #4
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Post the xover (if you can). Maybe there is a problem in frequency as you say. Now more people can understand also the main reasons for it.

Quote:
My friend (who's been building speakers for 14 years now) blamed it on the recording but I'm worried that the tweeter or maybe the midrange may be getting too close to fs.
The system will work as a whole. So better check the loudspeaker set and not only the two drivers where you have the problem. Also in this (your) case state the quality of the parts, if you bought them new (speakers) or used, type of caps and resistors, and evering you can, to make the correct picture of the events.

<<The 3way passive part of it is:
dynaudio t330d esotar (crossed at 2khz)
dynaudio m560d esotar (lowpass at 800, highpass at 4k)
then either two dynaudio 15w75s (~25l vented box) or a single 30w100 (35l sealed box, lowpass 80, highpass 800)>>


Interesting, I think you have a very professional system loudspeaker. Did your friend pro designer or professional, built and designed the xover himself? This is one less worrie.
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Old 14th March 2008, 02:32 AM   #5
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True first order acoustic slope XOs are often times far more complex than a 4th order XO. The old Dunlavy SC IV, a three way with true first order acoustic slopes had 34 components in the XO.

That said, there are few if any tweeters I know of that I would try to cross over with first order slopes at 2000 HZ, even a very robust tweeter like the Seas Millenium with its 500 hz fs. Given the tweeters fs of 750 hz, an Fc of 3000 or higher might be a better choice assuming your dome mid can run that high.

Regards,

Dennis
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Old 31st July 2008, 02:34 PM   #6
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Hello Radek,

I own a Dynaudio Confidence 5 old version, 1995, with a 82 dB sensitivity.
I got my filterinfo by this site and with a little backengineering.

http://www.diyzone.net/print.php?sid=721

At the end of this article there is the crossover filter.
R6 is the M560
R12 is the T330
R8 is the combination of the 20W100 and the 17w75.

When I opened my speaker I found more or less the same values.
I will try to find my filter back, its somewhere in my Pspice models.

A few resistors are different if I'm right

Give me a day to find out.

Rob
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Old 31st July 2008, 02:43 PM   #7
pjpoes is offline pjpoes  United States
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I will second that comment on true first orders being more complex than a true 4th order. I decided to try and design a true first order filter that would offer linear minimal phase shifts (the main reason dynaudio and others often use these filters), and its very difficult. Often you are using very unconventional topologies. In fact, when I was done, I believe my basic 2 driver 2-way design had near 20 components in it.
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Old 1st August 2008, 05:55 AM   #8
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dear Radek,

here you find information for the Confidence 5

http://www.dynaudiousa.com/products/...onf5/conf5.htm

also a schematic of the crossover in my Confidence 5

Rob
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File Type: png crossover dynaudio confidence 5.png (8.9 KB, 742 views)
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Old 1st August 2008, 12:26 PM   #9
discl is offline discl  Australia
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Thank you very much Rob for posting that c5 xover schematic.

I'm still fairly new to xovers and I'm wondering if someone can explain whats going on in the midrange section, is it still 6db/octave and what is the c6,c7,L3 and L4 section for.

Also is r9/c1 the impedance linearization section for the whole xover (in addition to the separate impedance linearization for each driver)?
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Old 1st August 2008, 08:46 PM   #10
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The c6,c7,L3 and L4 section is a ladder delay circuit which provided additonal time delay to that driver to improve phase alignment without using a physical offset of the driver.

Regards,

Dennis
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