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Old 9th March 2008, 03:10 AM   #11
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Default Re: Re: Horn suggestions--mid bass

Thanks for all the great suggestions.

One possible route is to go to a 3 way system: (80 to 100)-500 Hz, 500-4000 Hz, and 4000-20000 Hz. This is not very cost effective though since I will need to build an extra horn and amp such. I guess I'll count this one out of the running.

I could also try crossing over the 4540ND driver lower at 1200-1900 Hz and using a driver thats good from 50-4000 Hz such as the B&C 12" Neo but only use it for 150-(1200 to 1900) Hz. This is fairly cost effective, but would it sound good? This is about $240 in drivers per speaker.

The next step up would be to use the CP380/M instead of 4540ND for the high end and cross it over at like 1200 Hz. That would be about $310 in drivers.

The best solution seems to be to use the JBL 2206 from 125-2000 Hz and then use the Beyma CP380/M from 2000-20000 Hz. I don't know if I can afford this though. This is about $470 in drivers per speaker.

I was looking at the Celestion NTR12-3018D as a possible alternative the the JBL since it seems to be fairly flat from 100-2000 Hz also. I can't find any info on where to buy it or how much it costs though. Anyone have any experience with these?

Also, just a general question. What is the formula for a Tractrix horn? Also, what is the difference between a hyperbolic exponential and a normal exponential? Is there a good website that lays out the different horn geometries somewhere? I'm thinking about building my own high frequency horn instead of buying cheap ones from parts express.

Quote:
Originally posted by Inductor


B&C 10HPL64 10" (+/-)98dB Neodymium Woofer ($119.93)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=294-678

Selenium 10PW3-SLF 10" Driver (+/-)94dB ($48.00) with stamped steel frame though.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=264-332

Eminence DELTALITE®-II 2515 (+/-)99dB 15" though, to xover/connect to a CD.
http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_spe...5&SUB_CAT_ID=3
Thanks for the suggestions. I also kind of liked the B&C 8" Neo driver.

Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
Hi,
you are asking the mid horn to cover 4octaves.
This is the speaker that will handle most of the information and 4octaves might be asking a bit much from a high quality horn.
Yea, I guess that is a bit much. I'm pretty new to this type of thing. Do horns have a upper cutoff frequency? HornResp seems to show that they do, but what factors effect it?

Quote:
Originally posted by Magnetar

I like the little Beyma CP380 in a small format driver for that bandwith
I didn't notice the CP380 when I was looking for drivers. It looks like a really good driver, although a bit more money than the 4540ND. It should sound ok at 1200 Hz though?

Quote:
Originally posted by homebuilder
I would suggest you carefully look at the JBL 2206 12" for the mid bass. It is flat, low distortion, high output, etc. Available for the bargain price of around $275-300 each.

IMHO this is the most important component of your new speaker system.

Good luck.
This looks like a very good driver. I think that it might be over my budget though. Do you know of any other drivers that are almost as good but a little less money? I'll definitely keep an eye out for a good deal on these though. Maybe I'll be able to pick some up.
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Old 9th March 2008, 03:13 AM   #12
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I also noticed that there was a mod for the 4540ND: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-105564.html

I wonder if that would help out the lower end at all....

Has anyone else tried it?
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Old 9th March 2008, 06:14 PM   #13
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The Single Driver website has a calculator to design your horns.

http://melhuish.org/audio/software.html

For a Tractrix,you will need to multiply your low cutoff freq by about .7 to determine the flare of the horn.For example,if you want 150 hz,you will need to make a 105 hz horn.

For a mid-bass horn,I would suggest using the front horn section from the Altec 825/828 cabinet.It is a 110Hz 1/2 space expo horn.Make a back chamber of about 1 cu ft.Works well with the Altec 416 or better still,(IMO)JBL 2205a.Haven't tried any other drivers,but I'm sure there are plenty of 15" drivers that would work also.

Prices on the Altec A7's has gone up a lot in the last few years,but you might be able to find a beat up set of cabinets for a reasonable price.I think it would be about as easy to just build them from scratch as to modify an existing pair.They will wind up being 30" h x22" w x 24" d

Plans are available on the web,just Google.
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Old 9th March 2008, 07:26 PM   #14
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Here are some component options that should simplify your search.
The Seven-Pi and Eight-Pi designs have some elements that should be easy to impliment with your design criteria.

http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/default.php

Good luck in your search

FYI

NW
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Old 9th March 2008, 07:39 PM   #15
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Location: Bristol, UK
I wonder what driver is used in this design?

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/DR200.html

After looking at the THT, the DR200 seems to do 150Hz up quite nicely.... I imagine it's crossedover at around 2k or 3k?

I'm not saying build a DR200, but you may be able to do something similar, sans tweeters and pass XO.
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Old 9th March 2008, 08:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Horn suggestions--mid bass

I can't get the JBL 2206H driver to respond well up to even 1200 Hz in HornResp. I've attached the SPL graph of the best that I could get. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just not a very good driver for a horn?

It seems to me that the drivers with a low Le seem to model higher frequencies better in HornResp.
Attached Images
File Type: png 2206h150to1500horn.png (16.6 KB, 258 views)
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Old 9th March 2008, 08:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeHunt79
I wonder what driver is used in this design?

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/DR200.html

After looking at the THT, the DR200 seems to do 150Hz up quite nicely.... I imagine it's crossedover at around 2k or 3k?

I'm not saying build a DR200, but you may be able to do something similar, sans tweeters and pass XO.

Hmmm. Interesting. They are selling kits for the DR200 on this site: http://www.speakerhardware.com/prodd...?prod=DR200kit

I'm guessing that the driver that they are referring to is the Eminence Beta 8A:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-404

I was able to model this one in HornResp a lot better. I can actually get from 150-1500Hz with it. I've attached a graph. Are the wiggles on the low end normal?
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File Type: png beta8150to1500horn.png (16.6 KB, 257 views)
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Old 9th March 2008, 11:46 PM   #18
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Default JBL 2206 Midbass

I would ask why build the horn? The 2206 can easily be eq'd if needed to gain a bit more bottom end. Can the horn extend the upper end?

Take a look at your total costs:

The 2206 only needs a 1.0 to 1.2 cf net enclosure. (cheap)
The 2226 15"would cost less than horns for more bottom end.
They can both be found on eBAY

If the woodworking is part of the enjoyment to you, then by all means go for it. In my project, I ended up staying away from horns, and going with the straight driver. We are doing projects for both the 2206, and the TAD 1201H.

Good luck!
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Old 10th March 2008, 12:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: JBL 2206 Midbass

Quote:
Originally posted by homebuilder
I would ask why build the horn? The 2206 can easily be eq'd if needed to gain a bit more bottom end. Can the horn extend the upper end?
I'm really set on at least trying the horn thing. I might later decide to do a direct radiator system. Also, a friend of mine might be doing a speaker system at the same time, so I'll pass along the info. I did notice that JBL has the 2012H 10" driver that is intended for horn use. That one modeled very well. It has an inductance of 0 at 1kHz. Its $250 though and I can't find that one used.
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File Type: png jbl2012h100to1500horn.png (16.1 KB, 245 views)
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