Stage monitors

Dan2 · 6th March 2008, 02:31 PM

i built up 4 stage monitors with a 12" driver and matching horn tweeter for my church. they sound really good - except the tweeters are a bit loud and this also is a problem with feedback.

I know you can connect a resister to the tweeter to drop the volume a bit. i only had 2 5W resistors lying around- 10R and 330R. i tried the 10R but it didn't do enough so now i am not too sure what value i should use. the speakers are 8R

the problem is the system that is being used has the equilizer on the mixing desk - but no "main" eq for monitor and front of house. So when i set the monitors to sound good, front of house sounds horrible. i was thinking of building an eq for the monitors (just need a stereo eq) using op-amps (i think the circuit is on rod elliott's webpage). i just need a cheap option for now.

thanks for any advice :-)

PS: sound quality is not too important - this is a church so its not like we are using top of the range instruments.

Inductor · 7th March 2008, 07:56 AM

You can use a variable L-pad on the horns before you have a better implementation for your setup. With many factory brands around the world, that you can choose from, having always in mind the power you are using. This is for the CD's (horns) only, not for the woofers.

Quote:

"L" pad lets you adjust the relative volume of individual drivers in a speaker system while maintaining a constant 8 ohm impedance. Comes complete with level indicator and wiring instructions. Rated at 100 watts RMS.

At $11.00 each, is about the same price as two good attenuation power resistors.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=260-265

Good luck and post reports.

ianpengelly · 7th March 2008, 11:54 AM

Hey Dan,

I had the same problem with some monitors I built for a friend. the horn tweeter was a bit "hot" and when it fedback it kept blowing the protection fuse in the crossover... never did get a chance to solve it for him. Oh well, if only I know about L-Pads when I was building mine....

Good luck!

Dan2 · 10th March 2008, 07:31 AM

L-pads are a bit pricey here in SA - they cost around R400 and the speaker set (horn and tweeter) i got for R600.

I see u are steering me away from the eq - is that not such a good idea??

Inductor · 10th March 2008, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan2
L-pads are a bit pricey here in SA - they cost around R400 and the speaker set (horn and tweeter) i got for R600.

If you think they are also so expensive in other cities, and there are lots of people with no Visa cards to buy it from abroad at a reasonable price maybe then it's time to start a business... You shoud look for the factories (in SA) and tell them you use their equipment for the manufacture of speakers, so they can sell to you directly.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan2

I see u are steering me away from the eq - is that not such a good idea??

Please, can you elaborate on that? (What is the next question?) Is it that, and I am guessing here, the attenuation on the tweeter is your main problem... if this is the case, then state the dB for the woofer and dB for the tweeter to set the attenuation properly with (power) resistors, because those of 5W, well, they maight burn. Also state R (from specs) or impedance of the voice coil, not the nominal impedance, for the tweeter with horn, at crossover frequency.

Now going back to your Resistors available;
a 10R gives you about -7.0dB attenuation or 20% of power, and
a 15R gives you about -9.2dB or 12% of power,
a 25R gives you about -12.3dB or 5.9% of power,
a 34R gives you about -14.4dB or 3.6% of power.

Instead, to use an Lpad with two resitors R1 and R2 you can look at tables to set it properly. Since you don't give any more details of your setup, like the brand and model of the speakers and type of crossover if you have one.

I use this software calculator (also in spanish) a lot, for it. It gives the nominal power of the resistors also:

http://www.mcmantom.com/EN/
http://www.mcmantom.com/SP/utility/

there, go to:
1. Utility
2. Crossovers Calculator
3. Attenuators
(you can "Print Results" in the bottom)

If this is not where you "go", and you need more feedback, please post your next question.

Dan2 · 10th March 2008, 11:21 AM

i didn't get any specs with the speakers - they didn't even come with a box so they are no-name brands. but they do sound pretty good and are perfect for their application - except of course that the tweeters are a bit hot.

in my first post i asked if it was a good idea to build an equalizer for the monitors (it would need a stereo eq). i saw an equalizer circuit which was just an opamp, a few caps and some variable resistors - which looks really easy to build. then i would use the eq on the mixing desk for front of house and then set up the other eq for the monitors.
At the moment i can not set the high frequency up higher than flat without feedback from the monitors.

the only crossover network is a cap built into the tweeter - nothing else.

As for a protection fuse - that actually sounds like a good idea. could i just hook up a normal fuse in-line with the drivers?? if so what type of fuse.

happy.gringo · 10th March 2008, 01:30 PM

Maybe you could try putting a piece of open-celled foam in the horn mouth to attenuate it. Something similar is discussed on another thread here.

Dan2 · 10th March 2008, 03:19 PM

I did i quick search but didn't find anything - but that's exactly the solution i was looking for !!!

I will try stick some foam in the treeters tomorrow and see how it works.

Lsharptec1 · 10th March 2008, 06:57 PM

Guys,

Here is a tip that I use ... purchase a set of L-pads. Adjust them to attenuate the tweeters to a level that matches the woofer.

Remove the L-pads, and measure the DC resistance of both the series and parallel legs.

Then wire a fixed resistor L-pad with the same resistances.

If the measured resistances do not exactly match fixed resistor values, just use the closest available values.

Good luck.

Larry

Dan2 · 11th March 2008, 07:09 AM

I went to the electronics shop yesterday - they have a separate sound and lighting section so i was sure i could find an L-pad there. I spoke to the guy there and he never heard of an L-pad before!!! he said the closest thing he has is a crossover network (close???) I can get an equalizer for R1700 (which would probably work out cheaper than 4 L-pads if i could find some)

Still gonna try the foam tho - it would serve a double purpose too 'cos i already dropped a screw in one of the horns and it took like half an hour to get the damn thing out!

6th March 2008, 02:31 PM	#1
Dan2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	Stage monitors i built up 4 stage monitors with a 12" driver and matching horn tweeter for my church. they sound really good - except the tweeters are a bit loud and this also is a problem with feedback. I know you can connect a resister to the tweeter to drop the volume a bit. i only had 2 5W resistors lying around- 10R and 330R. i tried the 10R but it didn't do enough so now i am not too sure what value i should use. the speakers are 8R the problem is the system that is being used has the equilizer on the mixing desk - but no "main" eq for monitor and front of house. So when i set the monitors to sound good, front of house sounds horrible. i was thinking of building an eq for the monitors (just need a stereo eq) using op-amps (i think the circuit is on rod elliott's webpage). i just need a cheap option for now. thanks for any advice :-) PS: sound quality is not too important - this is a church so its not like we are using top of the range instruments.

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7th March 2008, 11:54 AM	#3
ianpengelly diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	Hey Dan, I had the same problem with some monitors I built for a friend. the horn tweeter was a bit "hot" and when it fedback it kept blowing the protection fuse in the crossover... never did get a chance to solve it for him. Oh well, if only I know about L-Pads when I was building mine.... Good luck!

10th March 2008, 07:31 AM	#4
Dan2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	L-pads are a bit pricey here in SA - they cost around R400 and the speaker set (horn and tweeter) i got for R600. I see u are steering me away from the eq - is that not such a good idea??

10th March 2008, 11:21 AM	#6
Dan2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	i didn't get any specs with the speakers - they didn't even come with a box so they are no-name brands. but they do sound pretty good and are perfect for their application - except of course that the tweeters are a bit hot. in my first post i asked if it was a good idea to build an equalizer for the monitors (it would need a stereo eq). i saw an equalizer circuit which was just an opamp, a few caps and some variable resistors - which looks really easy to build. then i would use the eq on the mixing desk for front of house and then set up the other eq for the monitors. At the moment i can not set the high frequency up higher than flat without feedback from the monitors. the only crossover network is a cap built into the tweeter - nothing else. As for a protection fuse - that actually sounds like a good idea. could i just hook up a normal fuse in-line with the drivers?? if so what type of fuse.

10th March 2008, 01:30 PM	#7
happy.gringo diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	Maybe you could try putting a piece of open-celled foam in the horn mouth to attenuate it. Something similar is discussed on another thread here.

10th March 2008, 03:19 PM	#8
Dan2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	I did i quick search but didn't find anything - but that's exactly the solution i was looking for !!! I will try stick some foam in the treeters tomorrow and see how it works.

10th March 2008, 06:57 PM	#9
Lsharptec1 diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Guys, Here is a tip that I use ... purchase a set of L-pads. Adjust them to attenuate the tweeters to a level that matches the woofer. Remove the L-pads, and measure the DC resistance of both the series and parallel legs. Then wire a fixed resistor L-pad with the same resistances. If the measured resistances do not exactly match fixed resistor values, just use the closest available values. Good luck. Larry

11th March 2008, 07:09 AM	#10
Dan2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	I went to the electronics shop yesterday - they have a separate sound and lighting section so i was sure i could find an L-pad there. I spoke to the guy there and he never heard of an L-pad before!!! he said the closest thing he has is a crossover network (close???) I can get an equalizer for R1700 (which would probably work out cheaper than 4 L-pads if i could find some) Still gonna try the foam tho - it would serve a double purpose too 'cos i already dropped a screw in one of the horns and it took like half an hour to get the damn thing out!