guitar speaker frequency range

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Hi all

I've noticed that most brand guitar speakers have a frequency range starting with 80 hz, regardless of the music style the speaker is recommended for (blues, rock, metal...)

Is there a specific reason for that, and I mean other than the fact that most guitar sounds don't require going lower than 80 hz? Is this maybe aimed at avoiding induction of noise from the AC power line (50 or 60 hz depending on where you live)?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm trying to choose between a 12" Celestion G12T-75 having 80-5000 hz frequency range and a 12" AA Craaft 12/250 SD with a 50-5500 hz range... The Craaft has better frequency characteristics (having more lows is usefull for my down tuned playing) and more power, but on the other hand is not specifically designed for guitar as the Celestion is.

So again my questions are:

1. Why guitar speakers frequency range starts at 80 Hz?
2. Is 50/60 hz AC hum avoidance an issue there at all?

Please help!

V.
 
Thanks Hobby1

My lowest (6th) guitar string is usually tuned down to D or even C, so maybe I do need the "extra" lower range of the Craaft, but then my concern is the 50/60 hZ region which you mention..... How much of an issue is that when it comes to guitar applications?

Regards! V.
 
voivodata said:
Thanks Hobby1

My lowest (6th) guitar string is usually tuned down to D or even C, so maybe I do need the "extra" lower range of the Craaft, but then my concern is the 50/60 hZ region which you mention..... How much of an issue is that when it comes to guitar applications?

Regards! V.

Hi,

The note determines the harmonics spacing, for most guitar amplifiers
on the lowest strings reproducing the fundamentals is not really an
issue. It may be for particular sounds when recording though you
would be getting in the way of the bass most of the time.

Most open backed cabs roll off bass and use highish Qts drivers.
Sealed cabinets are juicier and use lower Qts drivers.

Guitar speakers unsurprisingly generally do a far better job of the
task in hand than general purpose drivers - unless you play jazz.

:)/sreten.
 
Guitar speakers have specific peaks in the response to emphasize mids or highs and are also usually more efficient than standard speakers. Also, too much low frequency response will create a muddy sound. Guitar speakers have a higher qts to be used in open back cabs. I have experimented with guitar speakers in closed cabs and found that it sucked the life out of them.
 
Keep in mind that the sound reproduction ability doesn't end at the top and bottom of the RATED frequency response. Looking at the frequency response graphs of any speaker will tell you this.

Instead of abruptly ending, the low end starts to slowly roll-off below 80hz, so you are still going to hear plenty of 60hz hum if it is there. And likely, and 60hz hum is going to come from poor shielding in your guitar or amp, meaning it is not originating at the speaker.

Look at these frequency response charts for Eminence Speakers -

Eminence Patriot Ragin Cajun 10" Guitar Speaker
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&base_pid=660038&index=2

Eminence Patriot Texas Heat 12" Guitar Speaker
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&base_pid=660031&index=2

I make no recommendations for these speaker, they were simply the first guitar speakers I came across that had frequency response graphs.

I did notice when I searched the internet to see if I could find frequency response graphs on the two speakers that you mentioned, that the 12" AA Craaft 12/250 SD seems to be a very rare speaker. I found hardly any 'hits' on it at all in google. However, the Celestion is a far more popular and readily available, and therefore easier to get repaired or replaced, speaker. I would give some thought to that.

AA Craaft seems to be a German company, and is most search 'hits' were in Netherlands, Germany, and the Czech Republic.

If that scarcity doesn't both you, then go for it.

Keep in mind there are other consideration besides frequency response. How do you plan to apply these speaker; open cabinet or closed cabinet, one speaker or a gang of speakers, replacement in an existing cabinet or in custom built cabinets? These things all matter.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Thank you all for your time!

Here's where I'm at right now:

I still have not decided which speaker to go with. The AA Craaft is indeed made in Germany. Here are some specs for a simular model 12/200 ... http://tigervega.net/Speakers/Craaft 12-200 _TC.htm (can't find a freq. response graph though) - this one is still being made . The actual speaker I"m looking at is slightly more powerful, has just a bit wider frequency range, and is very rare, mostly because it is from older AA Craaft production and is considered somewhat vintage....It has very respectable appearance - it just looks like great craftsmanship. The store has only one left and there are no chances for replacement, etc... on the other hand I may end up with rather unique sound if I go with it, as opposed to the widely used celestion...

I spoke today with the salesman and he agreed to have me try the speaker with my equipment --- tube amp, cabinet, , guitar, etc..which suits me well :)

Thanks again for the replies ...I'll make sure to report on the speaker's sound as soon as I try it..

V.
 
If a guitar speaker frequency range is quoted as starting a 80 Hz then it is probaly down considerably at the frequency of 82 hz (open E string). It is way down if you set your amp volume bassed on the peakes at the higher ranges. If you pick an open A, D, and then E string you will notice that the E string sounds thin. What you are hearing are the harmonics which are at a higher frequency and closer to what the speaker can reproduce and less of the fundamental 82 hz. To better hear what I'm getting at pick the same notes on an acoustic guitar. The E string will sound full and mellow as compared what you hear from the electric guitar. I like Travis type picking and I have been frustrated at the lack of bottom end from my gear. If a guitar is recorded in the studio bypassing the amp then the bottom end will faithfully be reproduced. For this reason I feel that most amps on the market are junk unless you don't need a low end.
 
More than anything bear in mind that the driver like the amp is a part of your instrument!

Guitar speaker drivers are not designed to be flat so you may need to do some experimenting to find the driver that helps you get the sound YOU want.
Best way to narrow down your choices would be to ask guitarists who sound similar to where you want to be.
 
Hi,

Playing live a guitar amp with 80Hz response just gets in the way of the bass.

In a studio its fairly easy to EQ guitar for low bass if that what you want.

Live without a bass, and you want bass, then use a bass guitar amp, as
many did in the valve days, for the extra low down tone, most bass amps
are only flat to 80Hz or so, due to portability/efficiency issues.

rgds, sreten.
 
Forget playing in a studio or with a bass. Whats wrong with having an amp to solo with that covers the full frequency range of the guitar? The amp EQ should let you reduce the bass as needed if you wish to play live with a group. Amplifier specs should tell us what the respose of the finished (with speaker) product is.
 
There are numerous articles and adds giving all the details of every aspect of amplifiers including tubes, transformers, quality of resisters, pots and solid state devices, yet very little attention is given to the performance of one of its most critical and important components, the speakers.
 
Celestion, Eminence, Jensen are all guitar speakers, and known as such. Buying one is not a risk. They'll give you a baseline against which to judge future purchases and against which other people can make recommendations. Craaft are not guitar speakers, buying one is a risk, it puts you in the middle of nowhere and if you want, say, later breakup, nobody will know in which direction to point you.
 
Forget playing in a studio or with a bass. Whats wrong with having an amp
to solo with that covers the full frequency range of the guitar? The amp EQ
should let you reduce the bass as needed if you wish to play live with a group.
Amplifier specs should tell us what the respose of the finished (with speaker)
product is.


Hi, it seems you have no real idea of the real compromises involved, rgds, sreten.

What you want is chucking away at least 6dB in maximum SPL, for no good reason.
(And that 6dB equates to 1/4ing the amplifier power, 100W->25W, its simply not on.)
 
Last edited:
sreten:

Wow! that hurts. Been playing 60+ years, retired Navy sound technician and Lockheed aerospace engineer. My gear: Gibson Les Paul custom, ES335, Custom shop Strat and Tele, 1970 Gretch 6120, Fender DeVille, Marshall AVT 150, Fender 65 Reverb reissue, Marshall Haze 40, Fender Frontman 212 and Peavey Sessions 400.
Looking at the few frequency charts I could find it seems that most speakers are down at least 6db at 80 hertz. I didn't do enough research before buying. Contrary to your post there are a few speakers out there with acceptable performance but you have to buy high end amps to get them as OEM items.

My Fender 65 Reissue Reverb has Jensen speaker with 104 hz
rf. I want to replace it.

The Marshall had to have the back removed to eliminate standing waves. Its speaker rf was 85hz.

The DeVille had cheapy Eminance Speakers so I replaced them with Celestions G-12s. The amp was always in the shop so I gave it to my son.

My point is: why should a person have learn all the technical jargon and do all this trial and error to come up with a satisfactory sounding rig. A simple statement of overall amp performance would help?
 
A couple of specs to consider:

Jensen C12K resonant frequency (rf)= 104 hz. They don't publish frequency range
Celestion Vintage 30 rf = 75 hz range 70-5000
Celestion G12H rf-85hz range 80-5000
Celestion Blue rf = 75hz range=75=5000

The difference between the Celestion Vintage 30 and the Jensen C12 K at the low end (app 34 hz) would have to make a difference in playing enjoyment.
 
sreten:

Wow! that hurts. Been playing 60+ years, retired Navy sound technician and Lockheed aerospace engineer. My gear: Gibson Les Paul custom, ES335, Custom shop Strat and Tele, 1970 Gretch 6120, Fender DeVille, Marshall AVT 150, Fender 65 Reverb reissue, Marshall Haze 40, Fender Frontman 212 and Peavey Sessions 400.
Looking at the few frequency charts I could find it seems that most speakers are down at least 6db at 80 hertz. I didn't do enough research before buying. Contrary to your post there are a few speakers out there with acceptable performance but you have to buy high end amps to get them as OEM items.

My Fender 65 Reissue Reverb has Jensen speaker with 104 hz
rf. I want to replace it.

The Marshall had to have the back removed to eliminate standing waves. Its speaker rf was 85hz.

The DeVille had cheapy Eminance Speakers so I replaced them with Celestions G-12s. The amp was always in the shop so I gave it to my son.

My point is: why should a person have learn all the technical jargon and do all this trial and error to come up with a satisfactory sounding rig. A simple statement of overall amp performance would help?

Hi,

Not intentionally. Simple fact is high efficiency means limited bass output
and that applies to bass amplifiers with far more vengeance than guitar
amplifiers.

A guitar amplifier should not be flat to 80Hz, you lose too much efficiency.
Open backed you can't do much but sealed you can use bass boost if
that is what you want, but most of the time you don't.

Main output of low E on a bass (44Hz) is the 88Hz second harmonic.
The same with guitar, but double, so you need 176 Hz, and simply
that is how they are made, because it works and does the job.

Even if you have lower tunings, for guitar the fundamentals are
not particularly relevant, that only determines the harmonic series.

rgds, sreten.
 
Guitar speakers have to meet certain very specific requirements.


They must have progressive suspensions (accordion fold) that will keep the speaker from bottoming out if someone snaps a string.

They must operate in free air.

They must have paper cones that add pleasing distortion to the signal without breaking up. (Guitarists call breaking up "cone cry", and refer to the distortion as "breaking up" (and if you think that's bad, talk to a guitarist about "gain", sometime).)

They must be LOUD. (+96dB is a minimum, over +100dB is common)


Now, I've already made my point to the guys here that build speakers, but for you guitar players, a lightweight cone, stiff suspension, and a huge magnet all add up to a speaker with a high resonance.

However, this is not a problem because most solid body guitars are doubling the low E on the neck pickup, especially if they have humbucking pickups. (Most steel string acoustics do this as well, unless they're jumbos. Guitars were intended for gut strings, and by the time you've adequately braced the top for steel strings... let's just say Dave (Planet10) has the right idea...)

The solution was used by Dr, Bose in his 901's. Speakers with no bass + a huge electrical bass boost = a full sound. Check out this neat little app:

TSC

As you can see, guitar amps are "flat" with the bass and treble controls rolled all the way down. In normal use, a guitar speaker's low end is aided by a formidable boost from the amp. (I do, however, know quite a few good players that turn the bass way down even before plugging in. Guitars are midrange instruments, prized for their overtones. (If you looked at response graphs, you saw a bunch of spikes in the overtone range, not only the amp's EQ reinforces this, but pickups have considerable resonances above 3K, as well.))

In the Celestion range, check out the Vintage 30, G12-65, or G12H(55) if you're looking for low bass.

And put the back panel back on the cab. ;)
 
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