Internal Damping - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th February 2008, 12:10 PM   #1
morfius is offline morfius  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Internal Damping

Hi, I was just wondering what the advantages of different materials were for internal damping.

I have some old carpet which can be cut up - how good would this be for the purpose?

Also, what is the advantage of damping all internal walls as opposed to just one on each axis?

Can cotton wool be used?

Is it best for the damping to be securely mounted to the panel, or slightly loosely to allow for limited movement?
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 01:08 PM   #2
eStatic is offline eStatic  United States
diyAudio Member
 
eStatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
I'm outa date on this stuff. Last I heard was that rock wool (at .66 lbs per cubic foot) is the prefered media. But I bet some searches here would turn up some very good info from people who really know their stuff(ing).
__________________
This space for rent.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 01:44 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: xxxxx
rock wool is health hazard
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 03:28 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
So is Fiber Glass (dangerous), but it is cheap and it is very easy to find. I can find Rock Wool if I search the internet but I've never seen it in a store.

The lowest health hazard would be from polyester seat cushion padding. This is relatively stiff and dense, but is not really cheap. Of course if you are spending a fortune (relatively speaking) on beautiful veneered cabinets and high dollar speakers, a few bucks more for Poly isn't going to matter. Also, the stuff goes on sale frequently at the local fabric store.

Next to the dense Poly Cushion material, is Poly batting. This is sheets of poly that are used to make quilts and so forth. Put several layers on the wall of your cabinet.

Next, is loose fluffy Poly that you would typically find in a pillow. This can be used if you intend to fill your cabinet rather than line the walls.

You can also use convoluted acoustical foam panels. You can see these at Part Express, but they are available from many source. Again, these aren't cheap but they do the job very nicely.

http://www.partsexpress.com/acoustic...TOKEN=45209297
Notice there is a guide to various damping material on the bottom right of this page.

And yes, Cotton batting, fill, or cushion material can be used.

Recently while at the home supply store, my brother mentioned he had seen a home renovation TV show that was using a version of flame retardant COTTON house insulation. This stuff is so safe and non-toxic that one of the people extolling its virtue tore off a piece and put it in their mouth. I don't know about availability or cost though.

Now if you want to get really technical, each of these materials has a dampening coefficient that should be considered, though I don't know were you find this information or how many people really take that into consideration in their design.

Personally, I've always used Fiberglass home insulation on the walls because it is cheap and readily available. You need to use reasonable common sense precautions when using it; wear gloves, probably a dust mask, and eye protection.

One thing I would like to find is fiberglass ceiling tiles. These are very stiff and dense and therefore easy to handle. Though only about 3/4" thick. I'm not sure if they even make them any more, but the ones I remember seeing looked nice. Like I said, it is a 3/4" thick panel of dense glass fiber, backed (or fronted) with a thin white vinyl layer. The thin vinyl layer could easily be pealed off and the remaining fiber stapled to the inside of the cabinet.

As to the details of how and why you would pick one method or one material over another, that is a little beyond me. I leave that to the experts.

Steve/bluewizard
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 04:37 PM   #5
fwater is offline fwater  United States
diyAudio Member
 
fwater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
I have had success with simple layering of materials in my projects. On the back wall I use a layer of carpet padding first, followed by the unreasonably expensive convoluted foam. On the sides, carpet padding and fiberglass insulation. On the baffle, carpet padding only. The rest of the cabinet volume I loosely fill will polyfill. It stands to reason IMO that each material tries to address certain ranges of sound- the dense carpet padding for lower frequencies, 'glass for higher frequencies, convoluted foam for diffusing mid frequencies, and polyfill for good measure. The formula that I have arrived at comes from experimenting to get the best sound, which is, of course, a matter of opinion and will not meet everyone's needs or tastes. I have also used the even more unreasonably priced layered foams from PE with good results, but the cheap and easily available materials in the same implementation have a slight advantage to my ear. Ceiling tile could be a good material if it was follwed by polyfill or 'glass.

BlueWizard, a fellow DIY from MN! Whereabouts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 08:59 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sydney
Because of health issues, I have not used fibre glass or rock wool.

Polyester based materials like polyfill, etc, make your speakers think that your box is larger. This property is desirable in many box designs. However, they are not very effective in damping / absorbing (turning the sound energy into heat) the sound, and are pretty hopeless in low frequencies.

Natural sheep wool also makes your speakers think your box is larger and has some ability to absorb the sound, even in lower frequencies (of course, less effective at low frequencies than higher frequencies).

I have used and compared polyester, purposely designed open ceil foam, and sheep wool batts (80% wool and 20% polyester to hold the wool in place), and found wool to be the best (by quite a large margin).
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 09:39 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Robh3606's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Destiny
"One thing I would like to find is fiberglass ceiling tiles. These are very stiff and dense and therefore easy to handle. Though only about 3/4" thick. "

They work great! Easier to work with than the batts. Just cut to size and fit in.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2008, 10:28 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Keep in mind, as Fwater points out, there is no reason why you can't use a combination. Convoluted foam on the back, and thick poly on the sides, and add poly fill to taste.

I think most people use acoustic convoluted (wavey - eggcarton-like) foam, but you can go to the fabic store and get high density convoluted foam for seat cushions or bed padding. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

Preferably the black colored foam.

Also, keep in mind that some foam deteriorate substantially over time, and after a decade or two, it will start to crumble. That is typically the yellow foam.

Again, I simply use fiberglass house insulation because it is cheap and easy to find. You only need 2" to 3", so I take 6" peel the paper off, and split it roughly in half.

Generally, once in place, fiberglass is reasonably stable and not generally a health hazard. But when you are handling it, little flakes of glass can get embedded in you skin and they will itch like mad. Now imagine what the absolutely inorganic glass fiber does when it gets into your lungs (or eyes). That simply can't be good. So once again, exercise reasonable common sense precautions. And try not to install it while on the living room carpet.

The fiberglass ceiling tile are not as stiff as normal ceiling tiles. The glass is still pretty floppy, but it is not as loose and fluffy as house fiberglass. The fiberglass ceiling batting is relatively dense, holds its shape nicely, and can be easily stapled to the wall of the speaker. This about like taking 3" of fiberglass house insulation and compressing it down to 1" and you will have a rough idea.

And, by the way, I am in sunny southern Minnesota at the crossroads of America.

Steve/bluewizard
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 01:31 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Send a message via MSN to cyberspyder
What about the rigid pink foam insulation boards?
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 02:02 AM   #10
ttan98 is offline ttan98  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melb
Those interested go to this site:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/cabinet-damping.htm

Initially my speaker was very lightly damped, one layer of acrylic damping behind the speaker. Then I add in mat(similar to bitumen pad) on the behind main driver and tweeter and on top of the speaker and then cover it with a 1" thin of acrylic damping, also on one side of the cabinet.

Result:

better imaging, midrange, however the perceived sound becomes slow and some bass is missing from original.

Any suggestion, I think I need to remove some acrylic damping, what do you think?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PSB Alpha B1 internal pic Leolabs Multi-Way 12 31st January 2009 03:12 AM
Internal Hum in amp, help Thomas_A Solid State 13 27th April 2008 03:59 PM
Internal damping for BAMTM Obiwan_cr Multi-Way 1 19th January 2008 03:38 AM
internal cabinet damping gloop jives11 Multi-Way 6 5th July 2006 09:29 PM
dac internal wiring sparkle Digital Source 16 8th May 2005 10:52 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:08 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2