Greetings!
Does anyone have suggestions on the optimum size for a midbass sealed box for the TAD 1201 driver? I have read posts from Magnetar and Roddyama with great interest. This will be an active 4 way, with TDM crossovers and ARC tube gear.
I have new JBL 2404H for the high freq, and am trying to buy some JBL 2344a for the midrange. I may have to settle for the still available 2342, which crosses over at a higher point, about 1.2khz. For my TAD midbass, I was thinking of about 1.5 cf net. I have no tools for box calculation.
I'd also like to know what people think of using the bigger TAD woofers, such as the 1602, or 1801 in a sealed box. I had always planned on JBL, (vented) but have heard so many positive comments about TAD, but no box data.
Thanks!
Does anyone have suggestions on the optimum size for a midbass sealed box for the TAD 1201 driver? I have read posts from Magnetar and Roddyama with great interest. This will be an active 4 way, with TDM crossovers and ARC tube gear.
I have new JBL 2404H for the high freq, and am trying to buy some JBL 2344a for the midrange. I may have to settle for the still available 2342, which crosses over at a higher point, about 1.2khz. For my TAD midbass, I was thinking of about 1.5 cf net. I have no tools for box calculation.
I'd also like to know what people think of using the bigger TAD woofers, such as the 1602, or 1801 in a sealed box. I had always planned on JBL, (vented) but have heard so many positive comments about TAD, but no box data.
Thanks!
You should contact Bruce Edgar and order some bass horn shells for the 1201. The bigger and the lower flare rate the better. The shells are like a kit where Edger builds the flares and you enclose and finish them the way you like. The 1201 is a horn driver and will not go low without a horn. It will however walk all over the TAD 16" bass drivers - it would take four (I used six!) of the 16's a channel to keep up with the 1201 in a horn. It's that good.
TAD horn flares
Magnentar:
Thank you for the response...I will contact Bruce Edgar about the flares. What range would you expect to operate the TAD 1201 in, with those horn flares?
Can you give me an idea of the size, since this is for a home listening room? The baby cheek JBL 2404 are pretty compact, so that is no issue, but the mid horn may result in using separate bass cabinets. What is your opinion of that? I was shooting for the center of the midrange driver to be at about 40"-41"off the floor.
Thanks!
Magnentar:
Thank you for the response...I will contact Bruce Edgar about the flares. What range would you expect to operate the TAD 1201 in, with those horn flares?
Can you give me an idea of the size, since this is for a home listening room? The baby cheek JBL 2404 are pretty compact, so that is no issue, but the mid horn may result in using separate bass cabinets. What is your opinion of that? I was shooting for the center of the midrange driver to be at about 40"-41"off the floor.
Thanks!
TAD midbass
Nelson:
These TAD drivers are the unused ones you sold to a friend of mine in Iowa. I am just amazed at the quality of those drivers, and am anxious to get my test boxes built. My friend John commented that you stated "these were almost magical".
It occured to me to build a medium sized, massively braced 2 way with these, and then go all JBL on the other speakers. The JBL 2404H can get down to around 3k, but I wonder about the TAD 1201's ability to reach that high?
Thanks!
Nelson:
These TAD drivers are the unused ones you sold to a friend of mine in Iowa. I am just amazed at the quality of those drivers, and am anxious to get my test boxes built. My friend John commented that you stated "these were almost magical".
It occured to me to build a medium sized, massively braced 2 way with these, and then go all JBL on the other speakers. The JBL 2404H can get down to around 3k, but I wonder about the TAD 1201's ability to reach that high?
Thanks!
TAD Mid bass
Magnetar:
I agree with you on that subject, however I find it very interesting what Nelson has done experimenting with that driver. I don't have the necessary tools to measure those boxes a person might experiment with.
So, I will build what will work, and will utilize the driver's best strengths. On that topic, Romy the Cat suggested a mid bass horn also, but did not have any specifics. Tomorrow, I will try to reach Bruce Edgar re your suggestion.
As a sideline, I am facinated by open baffle projects like the one you have posted. Most of the speakers I have loved in the past, with all of their various strength and weaknesses, have tended toward "openness". My current project for a 4 way is for dynamics and efficiency.
Thanks!
Magnetar:
I agree with you on that subject, however I find it very interesting what Nelson has done experimenting with that driver. I don't have the necessary tools to measure those boxes a person might experiment with.
So, I will build what will work, and will utilize the driver's best strengths. On that topic, Romy the Cat suggested a mid bass horn also, but did not have any specifics. Tomorrow, I will try to reach Bruce Edgar re your suggestion.
As a sideline, I am facinated by open baffle projects like the one you have posted. Most of the speakers I have loved in the past, with all of their various strength and weaknesses, have tended toward "openness". My current project for a 4 way is for dynamics and efficiency.
Thanks!
Re: TAD horn flares
He will know best. A 50 Hz hypex would be great. You'll need a horn sub to fill in the bottom. He can help you with that too. The hypex with the 1201 should make it out to 500-700 Hz. It will be limited on the bottom by the flare and placement. It will be decent size, maybe 28 wide by 34 high by 40-50 inches deep. You will need a large format compression driver and an Edgar tractrix to use above that and you can use the little 2404 for a tweeter if it has enough sensitivity. The 1201 in the right horn will be around 108db with a watt at a meter.
homebuilder said:
He will know best. A 50 Hz hypex would be great. You'll need a horn sub to fill in the bottom. He can help you with that too. The hypex with the 1201 should make it out to 500-700 Hz. It will be limited on the bottom by the flare and placement. It will be decent size, maybe 28 wide by 34 high by 40-50 inches deep. You will need a large format compression driver and an Edgar tractrix to use above that and you can use the little 2404 for a tweeter if it has enough sensitivity. The 1201 in the right horn will be around 108db with a watt at a meter.
Hello,
For a use as a 12" woofer, better to use the TAD reference 1102 which one was used in their discontinued 2-Way Professional Studio Monitor MODEL 2251
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...roducts/ProfessionalSpeakers/MODEL+2251?tab=B
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
For a use as a 12" woofer, better to use the TAD reference 1102 which one was used in their discontinued 2-Way Professional Studio Monitor MODEL 2251
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...roducts/ProfessionalSpeakers/MODEL+2251?tab=B
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Nelson Pass said:
Jmmlc said:
Hello, I think he should examine what his goals are for the end result are before using either of the drivers. Where does he want to be? What is important to the end result? Then choose drivers to get there. No doubt the 1102 is better for a much more compact 'practical' system. I have the 1201's here and they sit on the shelf waiting for a time I feel a proper midbass horn will take me to the results I want to achieve.
Another choice is to use the 1201 as a direct radiator between bass drivers and a compression driver for highs. Maybe 300 to 1.2K.
TAD midbass
Magnetar:
My original request was to find someone to give me box sizes for the TAD 1201, more acurate than "1-2cf". I plan to use it as a direct radiator, exactly as you just stated.
However, your suggestion about an Edgar flare is interesting, and I contacted Bruce. He suggested his 80hz straight exp horn flare. 30"L x 25"H x 20" w, $400/pair. I don't know how high that will go. Again, the original issue: I don't know if I will be able to find JBL 2344a to cross over at 800-900, and may have to go with JBL 2342 at 1.2khz.
Right now, the plan is a JBL 2242H 18" in an 8cf box tuned to 25 hz. Unless, someone can give me some good data on the TAD woofers 1602 or 1801. Box size and tuning. Andre at e-speakers said they are happy in a sealed box. But, I have no data. Those are very expensive drivers, considering that so much is unknown about them. I mostly see a lot of subjective comments, and praise for the TAD drivers, from people who have never built with them, or even seen them, for that matter. You, and Roddyama are exceptions to that.
I do like the idea of the Edgar flares, because I have been thinking also of a very high quality 2 way for a different room. In that case, I would use a JBL 2206 in the 4 way, and go all JBL.
Thanks!
Magnetar:
My original request was to find someone to give me box sizes for the TAD 1201, more acurate than "1-2cf". I plan to use it as a direct radiator, exactly as you just stated.
However, your suggestion about an Edgar flare is interesting, and I contacted Bruce. He suggested his 80hz straight exp horn flare. 30"L x 25"H x 20" w, $400/pair. I don't know how high that will go. Again, the original issue: I don't know if I will be able to find JBL 2344a to cross over at 800-900, and may have to go with JBL 2342 at 1.2khz.
Right now, the plan is a JBL 2242H 18" in an 8cf box tuned to 25 hz. Unless, someone can give me some good data on the TAD woofers 1602 or 1801. Box size and tuning. Andre at e-speakers said they are happy in a sealed box. But, I have no data. Those are very expensive drivers, considering that so much is unknown about them. I mostly see a lot of subjective comments, and praise for the TAD drivers, from people who have never built with them, or even seen them, for that matter. You, and Roddyama are exceptions to that.
I do like the idea of the Edgar flares, because I have been thinking also of a very high quality 2 way for a different room. In that case, I would use a JBL 2206 in the 4 way, and go all JBL.
Thanks!
Midbass horn
After reading many of the posts regarding horns, and matching efficiency with other horn drivers, it appears that a midbass horn (suggested by Magnetar and Romy the cat) is the way to go with my TAD 1201H.
Since my earlier post, I have acquired a pair of JBL 2344a 100 x 100 horns with drivers, from a pair of JBL 4430 cabinets. So, I now have those, the 2404 baby cheek high freq units, and the TAD 1201 for midbass. It is time to get the midbass part built. Does anyone have any plans, dimensions? I also contacted Bruce Edgar about his flares, but have not heard back with any more details other than price.
I will delay buying the JBL or TAD bass drivers, and see how this setup works. Some of the bass horn designs look very interesting as compared to sealed or vented boxes. Does anyone have any suggestions for the bass section?
Thanks!
After reading many of the posts regarding horns, and matching efficiency with other horn drivers, it appears that a midbass horn (suggested by Magnetar and Romy the cat) is the way to go with my TAD 1201H.
Since my earlier post, I have acquired a pair of JBL 2344a 100 x 100 horns with drivers, from a pair of JBL 4430 cabinets. So, I now have those, the 2404 baby cheek high freq units, and the TAD 1201 for midbass. It is time to get the midbass part built. Does anyone have any plans, dimensions? I also contacted Bruce Edgar about his flares, but have not heard back with any more details other than price.
I will delay buying the JBL or TAD bass drivers, and see how this setup works. Some of the bass horn designs look very interesting as compared to sealed or vented boxes. Does anyone have any suggestions for the bass section?
Thanks!
Hi !
I just finished my Tad TM 1201H Fish Horn project.
160-200Hz to 1000Hz / 12db.
Forget other than horn for this driver, but a little bit smaller than mine.
Enjoy.https://www.flickr.com/photos/kleenair/14956910406/
I just finished my Tad TM 1201H Fish Horn project.
160-200Hz to 1000Hz / 12db.
Forget other than horn for this driver, but a little bit smaller than mine.
Enjoy.https://www.flickr.com/photos/kleenair/14956910406/
Oops, I made a mistake, follow this link :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kleenair/14987839675/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kleenair/14987839675/
Well, I'm way late to the party, but thought I'd post anyway. . .
I'll be using a TM-1201h for 150 Hz to circa 2000 Hz and, for HF, a TAD TD-2001 on a DDS ENG 1-90 Pro horn/waveguide.
A local tech, Steve Kranis, who has built mastering monitors for quite a few studios in the Toronto area, is designing passive crossovers for me.
The 1201 and the 2001 will be housed in a circa 2 cu. ft. box and will be driven by a First Watt F5 Turbo v3 that outputs 160 Wpc pure class A.
LF below 150 Hz will be handled by TAD TL-1801s in separate enclosures. I'm still working on the box volume and port tuning. The bass bins will also serve as stands for the two-way modules.
The subs will be crossed over actively. Choices are a Bryston 10B or an Ashly XR-1001. Or, if I'm lucky, I'll finally find the appropriate frequency module for my Accuphase F-25 crossover which, in terms of fidelity, is by far the best I've had in any of my systems. Bass amp will be an MC2 Audio S1400.
I'd love to try a massvie fully horn-loaded system, but I just don't have the space. . .this set-up will already be fairly substantial.
Will endeavour to report back, with some photos, when the job is nearing completion.
Happy listening all, Joel.
I'll be using a TM-1201h for 150 Hz to circa 2000 Hz and, for HF, a TAD TD-2001 on a DDS ENG 1-90 Pro horn/waveguide.
A local tech, Steve Kranis, who has built mastering monitors for quite a few studios in the Toronto area, is designing passive crossovers for me.
The 1201 and the 2001 will be housed in a circa 2 cu. ft. box and will be driven by a First Watt F5 Turbo v3 that outputs 160 Wpc pure class A.
LF below 150 Hz will be handled by TAD TL-1801s in separate enclosures. I'm still working on the box volume and port tuning. The bass bins will also serve as stands for the two-way modules.
The subs will be crossed over actively. Choices are a Bryston 10B or an Ashly XR-1001. Or, if I'm lucky, I'll finally find the appropriate frequency module for my Accuphase F-25 crossover which, in terms of fidelity, is by far the best I've had in any of my systems. Bass amp will be an MC2 Audio S1400.
I'd love to try a massvie fully horn-loaded system, but I just don't have the space. . .this set-up will already be fairly substantial.
Will endeavour to report back, with some photos, when the job is nearing completion.
Happy listening all, Joel.
Some news about TAD 1201H Horn Loaded
Hi Joel
Great project.
I tried many passive crossovers , with top notch components (see last pictures on Flick'r), different slopes, but a good active electronic crossover is far better, I use now Pioneer D23 fully recaped with Muse, Silmic II & Mundorf but plan to build a full digital 4 way crossover based on the I2S DSP from Mini DSP & four ES9018 DACs. A friend of mine use the same design with a SPDIF board since one year with great success on his big system (4 x 416A Altec front horn loaded under the roof & full TAD up), nothing's over with plenty of tuning for the listening room.
I just finished my 3 x regulated power supply A Class amplifiers & new wood horn tweeters shown on Flickr too.
I took also many time to try & compare different resistors (Holco, Vishay, Finally I choosed Tantalum, Allen Bradley & Kiwame...)
TAD 1201H (mine were news) are very long to deliver a crisp & open sound, it took one year, now it sounds perfect.
I cut on 160Hz/12db low & 1200Hz/12db high cause the high slope begins at this frequency on my horns.
I plan to build other horns with the same design but 3/5 ou 2/3 smaller to fit up 2000Hz but I don't know when.
The big easy on this system is the directivity & the speed near the same at every frequencies, it open wide & deep.
Waiting for your photos.
Regards From Burgundy.
Hi Joel
Great project.
I tried many passive crossovers , with top notch components (see last pictures on Flick'r), different slopes, but a good active electronic crossover is far better, I use now Pioneer D23 fully recaped with Muse, Silmic II & Mundorf but plan to build a full digital 4 way crossover based on the I2S DSP from Mini DSP & four ES9018 DACs. A friend of mine use the same design with a SPDIF board since one year with great success on his big system (4 x 416A Altec front horn loaded under the roof & full TAD up), nothing's over with plenty of tuning for the listening room.
I just finished my 3 x regulated power supply A Class amplifiers & new wood horn tweeters shown on Flickr too.
I took also many time to try & compare different resistors (Holco, Vishay, Finally I choosed Tantalum, Allen Bradley & Kiwame...)
TAD 1201H (mine were news) are very long to deliver a crisp & open sound, it took one year, now it sounds perfect.
I cut on 160Hz/12db low & 1200Hz/12db high cause the high slope begins at this frequency on my horns.
I plan to build other horns with the same design but 3/5 ou 2/3 smaller to fit up 2000Hz but I don't know when.
The big easy on this system is the directivity & the speed near the same at every frequencies, it open wide & deep.
Waiting for your photos.
Regards From Burgundy.
Kleen Air, Many thanks for your post. I agree with your comments about the superiority of active crossovers and amplification. I have two pairs of actively amplified speakers—Tannoy AMS-12A and Meyer Sound Labs X-10T—but they are both factory designed with onboard amps and crossovers. On the other hand, I've struggled for a year trying to get decent sound from my own active systems. I've even paid a studio professional to take measurements and configure the electronic crossover and EQ. I've had good results configuring the LF section actively (e.g., Tannoy AMS-12A with JBL 2245 crossed over @ 200 Hz), but very poor results when trying to create my own entirely active system. So my compromise is to cross over the LF section (choice between TAD TL-1801 and TL-1602) actively, but cross over the MF to HF (TM-1201 to TD-2001) passively with the crossover design done by a tech who has a reputation for high-performance passive crossovers. In any case, I should have the MF-HF part of the system in cabinets and ready to go in a month or so. Will post photos and impressions. Regards, Joel.
Kleen Air, Many thanks for your post. I agree with your comments about the superiority of active crossovers and amplification. I have two pairs of actively amplified speakers—Tannoy AMS-12A and Meyer Sound Labs X-10T—but they are both factory designed with onboard amps and crossovers. On the other hand, I've struggled for a year trying to get decent sound from my own active systems. I've even paid a studio professional to take measurements and configure the electronic crossover and EQ. I've had good results configuring the LF section actively (e.g., Tannoy AMS-12A with JBL 2245 crossed over @ 200 Hz), but very poor results when trying to create my own entirely active system. So my compromise is to cross over the LF section (choice between TAD TL-1801 and TL-1602) actively, but cross over the MF to HF (TM-1201 to TD-2001) passively with the crossover design done by a tech who has a reputation for high-performance passive crossovers. In any case, I should have the MF-HF part of the system in cabinets and ready to go in a month or so. Then I can compare that configuration with my best factory configured active and passive systems (Meyer Sound X-10T, Tannoy System 215 DMT II, TAD 2402 clones). Will post photos and impressions. Regards, Joel.
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