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Old 16th July 2012, 04:36 PM   #21
PALUSE is offline PALUSE  Portugal
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Ok, i discover the Xover is direct mounted on the rear terminal...
Click the image to open in full size.


What i notice too, with a direct listen on the speakers, is that the "problem" seems to came from the mid driver,when vocals came in action. No harsh from the tweeter. The mid band seems confused and harsh at the top end.
I believe if i tamed the mid drive a little at the top, i can manage the situation. I'll start to increase 1uF (Intertechnik MKP) // Mid Drive, and listen.

Bye

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Old 1st August 2012, 11:54 PM   #22
PALUSE is offline PALUSE  Portugal
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Good evening.
A week ago i solve the S6 invasion in the back, by the wire terminal. The Xover is attached to the block.
I change this 4uF polyester type cap, at mid band filter...
Click the image to open in full size.

...by this new MKP-QS, 4,7uF 400V, from Audyn.

Click the image to open in full size.

It upgrade the top midband clarity and confort at listening. Much less fatigue and the snare drum in Herbie Hanckock's "Future Schock" sounds now more "correct".The same happens with the high pitch vocals.

A simple and very decent upgrade.

Thanks to all your help, Good People.

Bye

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Old 9th September 2012, 11:17 AM   #23
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Hello my friend I too have the same speakers and I also want to improve the crossover has changed and nothing else; any resistance;
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Old 29th November 2012, 11:32 PM   #24
PALUSE is offline PALUSE  Portugal
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After make some auditions with new gear in the retailers, i feel the trend is to droping the treble a bit. I advise you to check the 22Ohms parallel with the tweeter, solution, as Rob did. I believe its better if you do it at the crossover board, since i couldn't retrieve de tweeter driver from the cabinet; and i don't want to use too much force and damage the enclosure.
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Old 30th November 2012, 01:22 AM   #25
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Just ran a quick sim of this speaker. Phase is TERRIBLE! Tweeter crossover has an unnaturally small capacitor, doubtless to protect it from overdriving. It should be 8uF really to optimise everything.

My finding was that the second woofer should have a 2mH coil, not 1mH.

Add shunt capacitors to taste. 2X 4uF is OK, 2X 8uF better. Cuts out a lot of metal cone breakup rubbish. Zobel to tame the rising tweeter response.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_Crossover.JPG (26.3 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6.JPG (59.6 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_Modified_Crossover.JPG (48.8 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_Modified.JPG (59.1 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_Stereophile.JPG (43.0 KB, 43 views)
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Good Night, and Good Luck. Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

Last edited by system7; 30th November 2012 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 02:21 PM   #26
PALUSE is offline PALUSE  Portugal
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Holly Sh*t, with this upgrade or others, it began to sound like a gold series speakers.

Actually i'm tempted to try the tweeter mod. I've got 4 MKP 1uF 5% caps from Inter Tecnik at stock and all i have to get are the 8,2 Ohms resistors.

May be i use the original MA 4uF MKS caps in the low drive, to clean up a bit the top.

Not a so dramatic change, but a step foward.

Do you agree with this option, System 7?

Thank You very much for the schematics an simulation you did.
You're running the hard gear.

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Old 30th November 2012, 07:34 PM   #27
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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It's one of those little irritations to the competent designer that when it's all finished and near perfect, the bean-counters move in and start stripping out expensive components and generally muck up a nice product in favour of a quick buck!

8uF and 10uf 250V polypropylenes are the first to go. Followed by Zobels. Naturally the resulting brash and lively result tends to pall with further listening. As here.

Here's what I think the original designer did, before it got pared down. You see the midrange is less peaky at 1.5kHz and harsh cone breakup is reduced at 5-10kHz, there isn't a dip at 3kHz because we are using 3rd order treble filter, and the top end is less peaky because of the Zobel which IMO is essential with metal domes. It's actually rather good, though I haven't modelled the bass exactly here.

Start with the stereophile measured response of the released speaker. Does it all makes sense now?

Oh, and in answer to your question, as long as the bass shunt capacitors are roughly similar, the two woofers stay aligned on phase. But bigger than 4uF helps cone breakup suppression.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_Stereophile.JPG (43.0 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_photo.JPG (18.9 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_GoodMod.JPG (66.8 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_GoodMod_Circuit.JPG (29.1 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg Monitor_Audio_RS6_GoodModPhase.JPG (58.7 KB, 46 views)
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Good Night, and Good Luck. Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

Last edited by system7; 30th November 2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 10:51 PM   #28
PALUSE is offline PALUSE  Portugal
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Hi Steve. At the second option you sacrifice bass extension and correct the gap between the mid and treble drivers.

I try the first tweeter setup, and i'm running the gear now. It sounds to me that the mid band is a little proeminent, create a bit nasalization effect. Treble sounds fine at cymbals, but the link point with the mid band seems worst. Running some hours to burn the addition and new welding.
Most probably it returns to the former situation or get all the parts and run a full update.

The gang:
Click the image to open in full size.
The gang running the show:
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Thanks once more, Steve.


Last edited by PALUSE; 30th November 2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 1st December 2012, 05:45 AM   #29
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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The tweeter Zobel should really only tame the treble around 5-10kHz by a couple of dB without affecting the crossover point performance. You could reduce its effects with, say, 8.2R (7-10W W/W preferably) and a mere 1uF. That is a typical value for a 0.05mH Le, 6R DC tweeter.

It's a bit all or nothing with the rest of it. I really couldn't find another solution that leaves a good impedance and power handling. I did sim a filter (below) that reuses the 0.2mH coil, but the impedance dip to 6 ohms @ 3kHz leaves me slightly uncomfortable.

Truthfully, the second order tweeter filter that MA use is a bit rubbish here. The whole modification should make for a much more refined sound IMO. Reducing the metal cone breakup should help a lot, and I think it will image better.

Ignore the bass response, that is just a trick I use to get the Boxsim optimiser to do what I want. It isn't affected here. LOL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mon_Audio_RS6_6.8uF_Network.JPG (29.4 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Mon_Audio_RS6_6.8uF.JPG (60.6 KB, 36 views)
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Good Night, and Good Luck. Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

Last edited by system7; 1st December 2012 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 1st December 2012, 02:30 PM   #30
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Steve,
How will the speaker sound if replacing 2.7 Ohm by 3.9 Ohm resistor, 4.7 uF by 3.3 uF capacitor, 0.2 mH by 0.25 mH inductor for the tweeter?
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