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Old 13th January 2008, 07:48 PM   #1
Renron is offline Renron  United States
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Default Help reading schematic

Just looking at some different schematics online of Xovers, I have noted several that have this type of resistor / coil sequence
Is the resistor seperate or a inclusive of the coils resistance (DCR)?

Thanks for the help,
Ron
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Old 13th January 2008, 08:03 PM   #2
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It's separate, you don't show components internal resistance separately like that. The resistors in series are to alter the response of the crossover/speaker combination.
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Old 13th January 2008, 08:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel Goodwin
It's separate, you don't show components internal resistance separately like that. The resistors in series are to alter the response of the crossover/speaker combination.

Sorry to call you out like this, but I think you are wrong. I've seen plenty of crossover schematics where the DCR of an inductor is shown as a separate resistor in the crossover schematic. The easiest way for me to tell is to look at the DCR value in context. If the DCR value is small (usually less than an ohm) and matches about what the DCR for an average gauge inductor of the given value would be it is probably not a separate resistor.
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Old 13th January 2008, 08:52 PM   #4
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IIRC, you are not supposed to put a resistor in the schematic, it is supposed to be spec'd out below the inductance value. However this is just a convention and as long as you put a note on the sheet it is valid.
I would agree that the determining factor is the magnitude of the resistance in series with the inductor, if you look at the table of values you will notice they are .2-.3 ohms which is typical of an inductor. This method assumes the person viewing the schematic has the basic knowledge of inductors to draw the conclusion about DCR versus series resistor.

BTW, go easy with definite statements like "you are wrong" especially if you are going to follow it up with "I've seen plenty of..." this is anecdotal evidence and does not mean that the schematics were done properly.

-J
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Old 13th January 2008, 09:55 PM   #5
Renron is offline Renron  United States
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Thanks to those who are knowledgeable in such things.
It is as I suspected......(after closing up the speaker Boxes) DOH!!! the resistor value is in reference to DCR of the Inductor.
I suppose surgery is needed to remove the extra resistance, but other than being padded down in volume they sure sounded great for the $$$ invested.
Seas P17RC & Seas 27TFFC in a 19.5 liter cabinet.
Thank you all for your input, and for helping those of us who are not professionally educated in electronics.
I own both of Mr. Jones' tube books but they start at a level above my meager H.S. edumacation.
Thanks guys!
Ron
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Old 13th January 2008, 10:02 PM   #6
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Have seen a site where the schematics were drawn with the same software as this one, and the poster explained that the resistors were added to simulate the inductor's DCR.

Doesn't matter anyway, they can be assumed to be necessary resistances and the inductor DCR can safely be deducted in any case.

I wouldn't worry about any left over tiny fractions of an ohm
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Old 13th January 2008, 11:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by nunayafb
IIRC, you are not supposed to put a resistor in the schematic, it is supposed to be spec'd out below the inductance value. However this is just a convention and as long as you put a note on the sheet it is valid.
I would agree that the determining factor is the magnitude of the resistance in series with the inductor, if you look at the table of values you will notice they are .2-.3 ohms which is typical of an inductor. This method assumes the person viewing the schematic has the basic knowledge of inductors to draw the conclusion about DCR versus series resistor.

BTW, go easy with definite statements like "you are wrong" especially if you are going to follow it up with "I've seen plenty of..." this is anecdotal evidence and does not mean that the schematics were done properly.

-J


Quote:
Originally posted by m0tion
Sorry to call you out like this, but I think you are wrong.

It's a definitive statement qualified by the fact that it is my opinion, so, I didn't say "you are wrong" I said "I think you are wrong". One of the previous statements is unarguably true ("I think") and the other is possibly true. I don't think I stepped over the line.

Also, anecdotal evidence is perfectly valid in order to determine the meaning of this single instance. The discussion was not regarding proper schematic notation or even schematics in general.
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Old 14th January 2008, 03:53 AM   #8
Renron is offline Renron  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by jnb

I wouldn't worry about any left over tiny fractions of an ohm
Are you sure? One of my R is .4 Ohms. Seems like it could make a sonic difference when added to the inductor resistance. I'll report back after I remove the R and let ya know if it makes a sonic difference.

Ron
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Old 14th January 2008, 04:10 AM   #9
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Well to me, tiny is less than 0r4. Right or wrong though, here is an example plot from the Zaphaudio site showing the response differences with a larger DCR difference.

Response plot

EDIT: clarity
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Old 14th January 2008, 06:27 PM   #10
Renron is offline Renron  United States
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JNB,
Awesome, that was an enlightening graph and good to know it doesn't effect response as much as I thougth it would.
I'm surprised,
Thank you for providing that link!
Ron
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