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Old 12th December 2007, 11:58 PM   #41
Salas is online now Salas  Greece
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That measurement test chart will give a 81.5dB sens closed box 4 ohm speaker with a good wind. Very dead. Hence the difficulty of drive.

Saltuk, did you hear enough detail when it was playing quietly?
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Old 13th December 2007, 12:09 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by salas
Oh my God! Are they really DIY? How can they be? DIY speakers are for the fireplace! They cant possibly be! No its an illusion...How did I crave after DIY? Me? me?....Now you ring a bell...Oh that Shin something English guy that I was suggesting some curves to his thread...That concussion really messed me up! I must commit suicide in the Altar of the High-End mystic knowledge dealer God...Bye all! Sorry for the post I thought I was posting to Stereophile! Sorry! Oh that concussion....
I must have royally misread your post - I think I was too caught up in what Limono said to see what you were really saying. My bad - apologies.

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread...
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Old 13th December 2007, 12:10 AM   #43
limono is offline limono  United States
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Salas
Splendid, Exactly what I was talking about (auto paint shop probably charged a little bit) Regardless the sound , paint job and general ahem "look" might impress some trendy people .The fact that you're constantly bringing up those digital crossovers makes me think little about sonic value. Sorry folks I didn't know you're so sensitive .
The fact that I didn't hear good DIY speakers should not offend you should it ?
I'm positive that you can't clone the sound of Magico speakers (but of course you can clone the design ) Well, if you think you can , good luck . After all, not you but this poor guy will be spending all the money on drivers and cabinets . And lastly I've always wanted to have Harbeth speakers .They all look like $300 but I'm willing to pay $500 for a true to original clone of their most ambitious project. It should be trivial comparing to Magico -any takers.
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Old 13th December 2007, 12:16 AM   #44
Salas is online now Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by limono
Salas
(auto paint shop probably charged a little bit)
Shin painted it in his backyard, he has even posted videos.

Cloning as a popular term in DIY is about nearing a design mainly aesthetically and not exactly replicating. I personally don't like to 'clone' but to create from my own head. Harbeth has proprietary cone material, nice trap. But Magico mini has an available set of drivers.....
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Old 13th December 2007, 12:31 AM   #45
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"Sorry folks I didn't know you're so sensitive."
Only sensitive to insensitive comments.

"The fact that I didn't hear good DIY speakers should not offend you should it?"
If that had been all you said, no.

"I'm positive that you can't clone the sound of Magico speakers"
Why?
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Old 13th December 2007, 02:06 AM   #46
limono is offline limono  United States
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What insensitive comments??
Why you can't clone the sound of Magico Mini ? Because:
1) You won't be able to replicate cabinets 100% and don't tell me you will.
2) I doubt that drivers are off the shelf (I'm almost sure they are not )
3) Crossover and wire need to be exactly identical (tricky but doable for an insider )
Now , I may agree that the effect of your collective effort will sound OK! or for the original poster close enough to justify expense (although there is a chance of an expensive turd in a garage ) but it almost certainly won't sound just like original. You can't be that naive.

OT While I love to clone I don't call it DIY but SIY (steal it yourself ) because I'm taking it from rich and giving to poor (meaning myself ;0)

Salas -I'll talk to Alan Shaw and buy those proprietary woofers for you , I think he"ll be amused (with all those BBC thieves along the way ) and willing to cooperate . Still interested in cloning Harbeths ??

Lets guestimate retail price of $20K Magico
The cabinets are pretty elaborate and labor intensive .I estimate $3k for the shop . Drivers probably $2k (??? I don't really know )
Crossover , cables $1k??? so lets say total $6K .because of exclusivity of product and almost on order production 100% manufacturer markup is not out of hand so its $12k .AFAIK retail ads 100% -$20k +price easy . Don't forget all those reviewing ****** who need to be bribed , magazine ads , review samples . No wonder that Magico guy said that he is selling them cheap .
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Old 13th December 2007, 02:32 AM   #47
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"What insensitive comments??"

They've only been pointed out to you three or four times, and I'm not the only person who objected to them - read Post #24.

"Why you can't clone the sound of Magico Mini? Because:
1) You won't be able to replicate cabinets 100% and don't tell me you will." HOW do you know? And don't tell you I will? I really don't know, and neither do you.

"2) I doubt that drivers are off the shelf (I'm almost sure they are not)" Almost sure - maybe you should BE sure.

"3) Crossover and wire need to be exactly identical (tricky but doable for an insider)" Crossover design and component values do need to be identical - I've already said that - if you know these things you can build it.

ANY speaker can be cloned - if you know enough about it. People get the info - it's not impossible. If the drivers are indeed proprietarily modified the finished product may sound different, but not necessarily better.

"You can't be that naive." I'm not, and I'm not that rude or caustic either. The naive person is the one who declares something to be impossible as if it were an established fact - you seem to know a lot more about what can't be done than what can.
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Old 13th December 2007, 03:05 AM   #48
Jay_WJ is offline Jay_WJ  United States
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Guys, why do you bother to reply to this weirdo? I do not think (don't know he or she, let's say just "it") it is worth replying to. Simply ignore and stay on topic for the original poster. I'm unsubscribing after this post...
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Old 13th December 2007, 03:07 AM   #49
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by limono
What insensitive comments??
Why you can't clone the sound of Magico Mini ? Because:
1) You won't be able to replicate cabinets 100% and don't tell me you will.
2) I doubt that drivers are off the shelf (I'm almost sure they are not )
3) Crossover and wire need to be exactly identical (tricky but doable for an insider )
Now , I may agree that the effect of your collective effort will sound OK! or for the original poster close enough to justify expense (although there is a chance of an expensive turd in a garage ) but it almost certainly won't sound just like original. You can't be that naive.

OT While I love to clone I don't call it DIY but SIY (steal it yourself ) because I'm taking it from rich and giving to poor (meaning myself ;0)

Salas -I'll talk to Alan Shaw and buy those proprietary woofers for you , I think he"ll be amused (with all those BBC thieves along the way ) and willing to cooperate . Still interested in cloning Harbeths ??

Lets guestimate retail price of $20K Magico
The cabinets are pretty elaborate and labor intensive .I estimate $3k for the shop . Drivers probably $2k (??? I don't really know )
Crossover , cables $1k??? so lets say total $6K .because of exclusivity of product and almost on order production 100% manufacturer markup is not out of hand so its $12k .AFAIK retail ads 100% -$20k +price easy . Don't forget all those reviewing ****** who need to be bribed , magazine ads , review samples . No wonder that Magico guy said that he is selling them cheap .
methinks you are over-estimating the cab cost !!

Similar cabinets have been built for way less than that using the same high quality birch ply on a one off basis. If done on a larger scale, the cost would be greatly reduced further.
The cabs are NOT labour intensive if you have a CNC or similar, nor are they especially elaborate, and certainly are not innovative !! I know several DIY guys who were doing that type of cabinet many years ago. It is nice to see commercial guys starting to copy us !!!
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Old 13th December 2007, 03:33 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Graddon
I know several DIY guys who were doing that type of cabinet many years ago.
In particular a guy from Oz named Andy was pushing this tech on us an (internet) aeon ago

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