Saltuk said:
Saltuk, I think that you follow the best fast route by getting a good price on a used pair. Beyond arguments of what is possible or not when there is a point to be proven, that speaker has captured your heart and it would take much time and effort to clone even if DIY was your main hobby and you had total grip on speaker concepts. Also expensive DIY has very low chance of selling second hand for good money when you feel like changing. It does not have a marketed high profile.
Salas I am trying to get a deal on a used one at the moment , DIY is not my main hobby , actually it is not even one of my hobbies .
But after the mini experience and seeing the relatively smaller and less complicated cabinet I thought about doing it (or getting it done) my self.
And I thought it would be a good heads up for the community about the magico mini.
Ýf I can get the speaker , I will definetely open it up and share all the details of the speaker if it is ethically correct.
But after the mini experience and seeing the relatively smaller and less complicated cabinet I thought about doing it (or getting it done) my self.
And I thought it would be a good heads up for the community about the magico mini.
Ýf I can get the speaker , I will definetely open it up and share all the details of the speaker if it is ethically correct.
You did very well to air your auditory experiences and clone question. Don't worry about the DIY argument VS the customer argument. It was a nice opportunity for many people to know why we DIY. I like very much limono posting the typical customer argument. Its democratic for people to say why they chose something and for what reasons. Not everybody can be amassing knowledge by practicing a lifetime hobby and spending years of construction and experimenting. People need nice available stuff for listening to music. Its just that many dealers paint DIY in black when it comes to discussion, since its an easy target, it has no commercial representation, and not the really good examples are available to the public for evaluation. Its creation, and the beauty of creation is the evolutionary anarchy and many colors. But DIY people have access to commercial for evaluation and know what they achieve. I would have been more cautious for prejudice when talking as a High-End customer for DIY if I had no real contact, thats all. To my eyes, original Hi-End is what DIY was always about. Shooting for the best with no economical constrains for parts or labor or time. Only in High-End, the market patronizes that. But many fakes have jumped on its bandwagon along the way.
And please don't post the Magico crossover detail. Its someone's bread.
And please don't post the Magico crossover detail. Its someone's bread.
Thanks Salas, I might have not chosen my words too carefully , but as well as commercial /dealer network try to marginalize DIY efforts , DIY people can be so arrogant in their claims that is is laughable. I'm not a hi-end costumer (can hardly afford a pair of socks -there is always some transformer to buy
Hi-end became an alien concept to me and having a pair of high-tech gorillas or 80db monitors for obscene amount of money in my room is not my goal. I go from time to time to my friends High-end store just to confirm what sound I don't want in my room.
Saltuk -good luck with your hobby .I noticed those speakers on A-Gon and I was going to point them out to you before they ban me for spoiling "the fun of spending your money"Regards, L
Hi-end became an alien concept to me and having a pair of high-tech gorillas or 80db monitors for obscene amount of money in my room is not my goal. I go from time to time to my friends High-end store just to confirm what sound I don't want in my room.Saltuk -good luck with your hobby .I noticed those speakers on A-Gon and I was going to point them out to you before they ban me for spoiling "the fun of spending your money"
Regards, L
Magico.....
If I'm not mistaked the SF Extrema was about 14k in the early 90's. That was a 2-way too.
It is amazing to me that people always complain about the Mini and the price. Usually they haven't heard it and just like to balk at the price. People who complain about the money obviously have NO idea the expense to create a speaker like that. The expense really isn't in the drivers or the crossover, and those aren't cheap either.
Get an estimate from your local machinist for T6061 in 3/4" or 1" stock for two baffles radiused to matched the curved profile of the cabinet...and don't forget about the matching rear pieces, or the pieces used to make the stands.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone could DIY an accurate clone for 6-8k with labor unaccounted for....but this is not the average speaker to try to copy.
If the thread starter is serious I'm sure he will end up with a great product....but if he wants to spend that much he may be better off buying a used credible design.
C
If I'm not mistaked the SF Extrema was about 14k in the early 90's. That was a 2-way too.
It is amazing to me that people always complain about the Mini and the price. Usually they haven't heard it and just like to balk at the price. People who complain about the money obviously have NO idea the expense to create a speaker like that. The expense really isn't in the drivers or the crossover, and those aren't cheap either.
Get an estimate from your local machinist for T6061 in 3/4" or 1" stock for two baffles radiused to matched the curved profile of the cabinet...and don't forget about the matching rear pieces, or the pieces used to make the stands.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone could DIY an accurate clone for 6-8k with labor unaccounted for....but this is not the average speaker to try to copy.
If the thread starter is serious I'm sure he will end up with a great product....but if he wants to spend that much he may be better off buying a used credible design.
C
Chris, those expenses are much lower when you talk on an OEM basis for 30+ pieces. Whatever you can make as one off private, think 3 to 4 times lower as a small scale manufacturer. Other costs come into play. Mainly marketing, packaging, and public relations. Drivers cost 3 times less from retail when for OEM. I am not making this up. And the suggested retail is 3X the export price list for the dealer as I posted earlier. It boils down to such a chain in order to get small scale production luxury items available worldwide, stocked, advertised, demoed and paid. I personally don't object well off people enjoying ready made, exquisite looking, many to chose from, fast to play with, luxury items. I object myth.
And I like DIY bcs it opens the door for us working class to enjoy good sonics too. Plus it gives us the great side benefit of the power to create. Maybe a bigger deal than getting the sound after all.
And I like DIY bcs it opens the door for us working class to enjoy good sonics too. Plus it gives us the great side benefit of the power to create. Maybe a bigger deal than getting the sound after all.
@cph2000 I know this kit but please read my first post , this kit is not in the same leauge with what I am after.
@chrismercurio I probably heard all high-end loudspeakers that is widely available on the market, my budget is not very far from Mini V1 but I am not willing to pay the full 24k for it as there is the v2 which is even better .
V2 is even better but it is almost 30k and way out of my current budget .
I planned to replicate the v1 because I loved it and I know it is made of available components on the market. As far as I know V2' woofer is Magico's own design .
A good friend of mine is the distributor of a very well known(actually the best known) British speaker company in my country and I have seen the production costs of every speaker they make in formal papers.
I can say that at least for this brand the cost to retail price ratio starts from roughly 11x to 4x (from the cheapest products to the most expensive ones)
I am sure magico gets very little profit from their products (at least when compared to competitors)
@chrismercurio I probably heard all high-end loudspeakers that is widely available on the market, my budget is not very far from Mini V1 but I am not willing to pay the full 24k for it as there is the v2 which is even better .
V2 is even better but it is almost 30k and way out of my current budget .
I planned to replicate the v1 because I loved it and I know it is made of available components on the market. As far as I know V2' woofer is Magico's own design .
A good friend of mine is the distributor of a very well known(actually the best known) British speaker company in my country and I have seen the production costs of every speaker they make in formal papers.
I can say that at least for this brand the cost to retail price ratio starts from roughly 11x to 4x (from the cheapest products to the most expensive ones)
I am sure magico gets very little profit from their products (at least when compared to competitors)
Saltuk,
If you haven't heard good DIY speakers, I strongly suggest building one of them before you purchase $20k speakers. It won't cost much and won't be any late even if you consider purchasing any high-end speakers after the experiment.
I suggest building this:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html
Just hire your local woodwoofer to build the cabinet. Simply build it to Zaph's spec. And don't use high-end, boutique crossover components for this experiment. Simply use good quality polypropylene capacitors and air core inductors with DCRs specified by Zaph.
This won't cost much. Perhaps, less than US $1500 including everything.
You'll be amazed how "high-end" and great they sound.
If you haven't heard good DIY speakers, I strongly suggest building one of them before you purchase $20k speakers. It won't cost much and won't be any late even if you consider purchasing any high-end speakers after the experiment.
I suggest building this:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html
Just hire your local woodwoofer to build the cabinet. Simply build it to Zaph's spec. And don't use high-end, boutique crossover components for this experiment. Simply use good quality polypropylene capacitors and air core inductors with DCRs specified by Zaph.
This won't cost much. Perhaps, less than US $1500 including everything.
You'll be amazed how "high-end" and great they sound.
Hi Saltuk,
Welcome to "Hotel California" (more later). Well, from what I read, it looks like you are not going to look at anything but this Magico Mini. Since you are so particular on every quality of how it sound, don't think you can get away but open one up and copy everything down to the stuffing and internal wiring. Alternatively build the box as per what you listed. Forget about the stock crossover and use active crossover and tune the sound to the way you remember or beyond. The only thing is you need another amp.
Most DIY here are doing it not only for the sound but also for the challenge and fun of it. The biggest nightmare is, like Hotel California, once you get into this hobby, you can't get out.
My advice is....be mindful on your 1st project. You will find DIY allow you to tune/change and build the sound you wanted and you will soon find there bigger oyster that can be reach. So, the 1st project will hardly be the last.
Have fun,
Sam
Welcome to "Hotel California" (more later). Well, from what I read, it looks like you are not going to look at anything but this Magico Mini. Since you are so particular on every quality of how it sound, don't think you can get away but open one up and copy everything down to the stuffing and internal wiring. Alternatively build the box as per what you listed. Forget about the stock crossover and use active crossover and tune the sound to the way you remember or beyond. The only thing is you need another amp.
Most DIY here are doing it not only for the sound but also for the challenge and fun of it. The biggest nightmare is, like Hotel California, once you get into this hobby, you can't get out.
My advice is....be mindful on your 1st project. You will find DIY allow you to tune/change and build the sound you wanted and you will soon find there bigger oyster that can be reach. So, the 1st project will hardly be the last.
Have fun,
Sam
I read this thread again. Saltuk, I understand you want to clone the Magico Mini. But before doing that, try my above suggestion. It will cost little and be easy, compared to what you want to do now.
In case you wonder about the ZD5 design by Zaph, this design uses some of the lowest distortion drivers on the market. Someone may say that the Vifa XT25 is bettered by Scan Speak 6600, 7000, or 7100. But all of them already have extremely low distortions. Distortion numbers of the Scan drivers may look a little bit lower on paper. But I guarantee that you won't be able to hear the difference. You may be able to hear some "difference" in sound, but won't be able to discern which one is "better."
Zaph is surely one of the best DIY speaker designers. His perferctionism in paying attention to details is well known among people here. I don't believe that many commercial designers pay as good attention as he does to his designs.
Don't think you will build your best speaker once and for all. You may think cloning the Magico Mini will be your first and last attempt at DIY. I do not think so. That's why I suggested the above design as your first DIY project, especially if your aim is high.
In case you wonder about the ZD5 design by Zaph, this design uses some of the lowest distortion drivers on the market. Someone may say that the Vifa XT25 is bettered by Scan Speak 6600, 7000, or 7100. But all of them already have extremely low distortions. Distortion numbers of the Scan drivers may look a little bit lower on paper. But I guarantee that you won't be able to hear the difference. You may be able to hear some "difference" in sound, but won't be able to discern which one is "better."
Zaph is surely one of the best DIY speaker designers. His perferctionism in paying attention to details is well known among people here. I don't believe that many commercial designers pay as good attention as he does to his designs.
Don't think you will build your best speaker once and for all. You may think cloning the Magico Mini will be your first and last attempt at DIY. I do not think so. That's why I suggested the above design as your first DIY project, especially if your aim is high.
Saltuk it seems you have a budget such that building your own speakers is completely unnecessary - so perhaps finding a used pair of Magicos is the way to go.
But consider what Jay has said above - once you get distortion levels down low enough differences between drivers become virtually indistinguishable. I am confident some of the designs mentioned here will rival the Magicos - why spend the money if you don't have to? If it can be done once it can be done twice. Remember, the person who invents something DIYed it! Everything starts that way.
It's not impossible to replicate (the sound of) a $20k speaker for a fraction of that amount - we all have access to the same technology and it's done all the time. The retail cost only speaks to the cost of a company bringing the product to market (including R&D) and making a profit - NOT the cost of making the speaker in the first place.
It certainly won't hurt to find out - build a DIY design first so you don't have to wait to hear wonderfully reproduced music - get the Magico when you can and then do a side-by-side - you may be surprised. Then you'll be able to dissect the thing (if you dare) and see what's inside - believe me we'll all want to know.
Or, do as I earlier suggested - get the exact drivers as are in the Mini and have someone like Zaph design a speaker around them.
But consider what Jay has said above - once you get distortion levels down low enough differences between drivers become virtually indistinguishable. I am confident some of the designs mentioned here will rival the Magicos - why spend the money if you don't have to? If it can be done once it can be done twice. Remember, the person who invents something DIYed it! Everything starts that way.
It's not impossible to replicate (the sound of) a $20k speaker for a fraction of that amount - we all have access to the same technology and it's done all the time. The retail cost only speaks to the cost of a company bringing the product to market (including R&D) and making a profit - NOT the cost of making the speaker in the first place.
It certainly won't hurt to find out - build a DIY design first so you don't have to wait to hear wonderfully reproduced music - get the Magico when you can and then do a side-by-side - you may be surprised. Then you'll be able to dissect the thing (if you dare) and see what's inside - believe me we'll all want to know.
Or, do as I earlier suggested - get the exact drivers as are in the Mini and have someone like Zaph design a speaker around them.
Perhaps Hornslet will build the box for you....
C
http://www.hifi4all.dk/content/templates/besogsartikler.asp?articleid=1450&zoneid=4
C
http://www.hifi4all.dk/content/templates/besogsartikler.asp?articleid=1450&zoneid=4
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.