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Old 17th December 2007, 02:57 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by KBK
I'm of two minds on this. I very much respect and desire the idea and execution of DIY. After all, we all (anyone who bothers to attempt getting into business) come from somewhere, don't we?

However, it can be a hotbed of pure, unadulterated, disrespectful theft..and folks from other countries who's only desire is to steal all good ideas and use them for their own benefit in business enterprises, with zero to no acknowledgement of the origins of the ideas, those folks can -and many times are- paying close attention..well..how is one supposed to have respect for that?
KBK you miss the main point of DIY and how its general populous goes about doing their business. Despite your inferences, it isn't about ripping off novelties from audio manufacturers. Few projects I see are copying anything commercial, for most that's not a standard to be reached - we can do better for our own requirements and budget.

All of the heavy weight design principles in loudspeaker design are general knowledge that's out there for the masses, its open source if you like. Its not proprietary copyrighted trade secrets. And such is the standard and envelopment of this gneral knowledge that its enough for a world class speaker to be designed and built by even DIY inclined individuals.

Loudspeaker manufacturers dip their hands into this pot of knowledge every day. Its the basic principles which lay the foundation for good sounding speakers not unsubstantiated rubbish that's bordering on the disgusting and fraudulent audio cable industry.

I'm also quite sure more than one idea from a DIY'er has been implemented into a commercial loudspeaker over the years as well. There's many well documented efforts here and on the web, nothing is hidden and some of it is straying from principles commercial designers struggle with.

They key thing here is that commercial are in it to make money, thats the bottom line. They have to guard their 'secrets' but to the trained eye they aren't secrets or radical developments at all, they're quite often ideas that have been around for years but spun in a new light. My own and most recent design could have a couple of marketing buzzwords applied to it from the construction to the drivers to the crossover themselves. However I'm not trying to fool anyone, everything that's been implemented is just plain common knowledge thats been brought together. I didn't develop anything new. And you know what? Despite this obvious lack of proprietary, I have no issue putting it up against anything else in the world and know it wouldn't be embarrassed in any department.

If DIY'ers are cloning commercial loudspeakers then more often than not its simply form rather than details and function. You can't copyright a shape or colour. So its far from stealing in the traditional sense. And what you consider proprietary is often little more than a big word stuck over a familiar and copyright-free theme.
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Old 17th December 2007, 03:08 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193



Hi,
Sounds like you are out of your depth too.
What's the market for high end speakers? Not people that would bother with a knock off.

How many high end speaker designs are being ripped off to sell to the target market? My guess would be next to none.

I see absolutely no problem whatsoever in "cloning" a design for your own personal use, and it's ridiculous to suggest a person should buy the product to do so.
Hi John,

KBK, is a DIY'er and commercial. He comes here to dip his hand in the pot and selectively(based on commercial obligations) also puts back into that pot. At the end of day he makes money from his knowledge but some of that knowledge comes from DIY'ers or inspiration taken from DIY.

I find it a little humorous after what he's just typed.
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Old 17th December 2007, 08:04 PM   #123
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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As I have said before.. this style of cabinet has been around for MANY years in the DIY scene.

In a way, its good to see a manufacturer finally seeing its benefits and using it, even if they do so at a premium price tag.

Then its a matter of simple driver and x-o selection. Nothing untoward with a standard 2-way !!!

And to say it can't be copied..... well it has been, by Magico !!
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Old 17th December 2007, 08:24 PM   #124
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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And it is not a mini, but a fully fledged 6.5''stand mount. A mini is a BBC LS3/5a. Magico Midi would be an appropriate name.
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Old 17th December 2007, 09:05 PM   #125
Saltuk is offline Saltuk  Turkey
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Ok , lets soften up the topic a little.

Good news ! Today I recieved my new loudspeakers.

3 days ago I revisited the Magico dealer and listened to the minis again with my CDs and auditioned another set of standmounters from a new company that costs 28k ! I liked the Minis much better and left the place for another demo in another dealer.

The next auditioning took nearly 3 hours (4 or 5 breaks about 15min each ), the speakers I listened was taken out of its boxes for me 2 days ago and was being cooked with L.V. Beethoven till I arrived (about 40hrs). After the demo I immediately paid for the speakers and their matching stands !(Yes they are standmounters too)

By the way in those demos I used the interconnects and speaker cables that I brought with me and the amps were the same Gamut model in all three auditioning, sources was decent CDPs . The room sizes were identical to each other and mine , the acoustic treatments were not superior to what I have in my own listening room.

My search for "the" loudspeakers has ended for now. What I learned from this experience is: You dont need exotic drivers to get good sound , a good executed mdf cabinet can also be dead silent, you can get very respectable FR from a ported cabinet and finally the real magic is in the tuning part of a loudspeaker(mostly via crossover)

Here are two FR graphs , one is the 28k standmounter and the other one is my new lodspeaker. ( the measurament are taken in the same room with same gear )

Lets play a guessing game , which is the expensive one ? And which one is the speaker I choose and can you guess the price ?

Cheers !

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Old 17th December 2007, 09:10 PM   #126
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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At a rough guess, I'd say the top one is the 28k model,

you choose the bottom one, probably around the $5k range.
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Old 17th December 2007, 09:11 PM   #127
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No. 2

EDIT: Why? More low end, smoother FR and more air and detail in the top octave.
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Old 17th December 2007, 09:12 PM   #128
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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If I understand correctly, this is another model that you bought, not a Magico Mini in the end? Something more simple in construction materials and more affordable like an Usher?
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Old 17th December 2007, 09:14 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by salas
If I understand correctly, this is another model that you bought, not a Magico Mini in the end? Something more simple in construction materials and more affordable like an Usher?
I took that as what he meant too.

BTW hope you enjoy them whatever they are.
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Old 17th December 2007, 09:15 PM   #130
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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My opinion is that No.2 is the cheaper one too.
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