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Old 16th December 2007, 02:41 PM   #111
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I posted that earlier in the thread. Hornslet make some of the nicest cabinets in the world for several different manufacturers. Denmark isn't the third world and I am sure the price to have them make things is comensurate with living wages there which are higher than the US.

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Old 16th December 2007, 03:21 PM   #112
tomtom is offline tomtom  Slovakia
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sorry i skip it
i found link on another forum in different connection.
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Old 16th December 2007, 08:06 PM   #113
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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Final (final means finished-ready for use) reject rates on cabinets for speakers in the high-end are at around 20-25%, due to finishing difficulties. The manufacturer pays for all of them, regardless. And their custom shipping containers. And their shipping from Denmark. And...And... $$..$$

A good batch can come in at 15% reject rate. But don't count on it.

Our cabinets are done in a factory that even we are not allowed into. Any other manufacturer is also disallowed entry into the factory.
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Old 16th December 2007, 08:09 PM   #114
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Magico Mini and costs, con't (a little long)

a couple of more points to make RE: costs to produce, etc.

Where a distributor is present in a country (a good thing) they are entitled to make a living too (sorry I missed that in my earlier post!).

The comments regarding -3Xs the retail as being cost for a distributor is not that far off. The distributors also have costs other than just labour and handling costs. and should be entitled to a fair return on investment and costs. Most retailers make 35 gross profit (or try to) to keep the doors open. That's reality....

the enclosures and stuff that goes in them
now as far as the design of the enclosure, many makers have used non-paralell walled enclosures, not just Magico. TAD, JBL, Tannoy and many others have used similar shapes and construction techniques. So whatever Magico is doing they must be somewhat unique, so the combination of their drivers (sourced from wherever) and crossovers (designed in-house) and the details make them unique. So sourced special amber resins (no doubt enriched with musk ox **** ) can be part of the "recipe" of the speaker.

None of this is to take away from truly creative designers and builders in any way. They just have the resources needed to find out if that special glue is the one. Same with the wall construction, wall materials (of the enclosures I mean) , etc.

So manufacturers do deserve a "break" from the DIY crowd. The reality is that if the market will bear what it is that they are selling (and part of that may be exclusivity) at the price that they feel it should sell at, who cares?

I can't afford $20k speakers. I can't afford $2k speakers. But I do have a pretty good set of ears, and pride myself at "getting the most for the least ". And this is where some DIY can come in. Pay an engineer for his/her time doing the development work on your project, pay yourself for your time for construction at a market reasonable rate, and buy your materials. I think most can see that the costs can add up in a hurry.

So as far as DIYers go, understand that not all may have your patience, or skill set or time or knowledge, and simply will buy what they can afford based on what is in the market and what they can justify to themselves.
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Old 16th December 2007, 08:48 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by limono
One more note to Salas and his spectacular speaker and fireplace. My understanding is that 20 prototypes of his monster ended up in fireplace during months of evaluation and this is 21-st incarnation and final products of months of refinement right?? You did not (like almost all if not all DIY speakers ) "hit the nail' on the first take ??
Forget Harbeths, -we both know why Regards, L
Yep its really cold in the UK winter time right now so I've chopped the speakers up and thrown them on the fire. I was going to get round to it sooner or later anyway, after all its only DIY..

Your quick to set yourself up as somewhat anti-DIY yet your experience seem to ill equip you for that conclusion.

Besides all the gross generalisations, misinformation and border line trolling I have to ask the question; "Why are you here?"

Have a bit of respect in the future, DIY requires more effort than popping into 'Highend r Us' and plonking a credit card down. No matter what the end result the effort deserves commendation and encouragement. Anything commercial can do, DIY can do too and any other opinion is just short sighted. Go listen to something from Dave in Canada, Tony/Troels in the Netherlands or John in the States and then tell me DIY is a curiosity rather than a serious alternative to highend such as the Magico.

Finally, I don't go trolling over commercial forums telling folks they should throw their speakers in the fireplace and neither should you do the same here. Remember where you are, this forum is for constructive DIY comments, information sharing and a place for the like-minded individuals to be part of a community interested in bettering itself.

Does all this seem a little off from me? Well its almost as if you wanted this kind of reply.

BTW thanks Salas
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Old 16th December 2007, 11:23 PM   #116
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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A friend of mine is a cabinetmaker.

He had a neighbour who took all his cabinetmaking wood scraps and burned them in his wood stove, to heat the house-to save money.

That entire family died of cancer within two years.

You have been warned!
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Old 16th December 2007, 11:56 PM   #117
limono is offline limono  United States
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To clone successfully you need to have the cloned object in hand .Take it apart , measure and build exact copy using the same materials -Am I the only one here with all senses intact??
I think that original poster "got it" at least and did what I suggested from the beginning. (you don't have to thank me Saltuk).
If some (or all) of you feel offended by my reasoning -sorry .It's only hobby after all.
Many times I posted that you probably could do better than Magico Mini.
My mentioning of a fireplace was a metaphor to the many iterations one must go trough to get desired effect result not that you should burn your DIY speakers in it. I thought it was obvious enough. I know that you use the same software as a pros ,which suggest that you're getting the same type of High-End sound .
I'm here because I DIY .I bought an old alnico coaxials on flea market for $60 and put it in shabby jensen cabs .I don't think there is A high-end speaker in the market which can compete with those. I'm serious. You all have a Merry , Merry Christmas.
REgards, L
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Old 17th December 2007, 12:16 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by limono
To clone successfully you need to have the cloned object in hand .Take it apart , measure and build exact copy using the same materials -Am I the only one here with all senses intact??

Hi,
Do you believe you could hear the difference? I don't think I could.
They are not talking about building it from inferior materials, but a well made replica, using virtually identical parts.
I think you are out of your depth here.
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Old 17th December 2007, 02:08 PM   #119
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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I'd say he's not out of his depth. I'd say he's exactly correct. And I do know what I'm talking about.

Which is why I made the comment about our cabinet builders not allowing us into their factory at all.

Which is why the photo of other's work being on the net is, in my opinion...(put as nicely as possible)..not a good thing. You want to copy it? At least have the decency to buy a pair and work from there.

That's the best a manufacturer can hope for: if their work is going to be ripped off, then at least have the decency to be paying for the working sample.

I'm of two minds on this. I very much respect and desire the idea and execution of DIY. After all, we all (anyone who bothers to attempt getting into business) come from somewhere, don't we?

However, it can be a hotbed of pure, unadulterated, disrespectful theft..and folks from other countries who's only desire is to steal all good ideas and use them for their own benefit in business enterprises, with zero to no acknowledgment of the origins of the ideas, those folks can -and many times are- paying close attention..well..how is one supposed to have respect for that?
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Old 17th December 2007, 02:32 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by KBK
I'd say he's not out of his depth. I'd say he's exactly correct. And I do know what I'm talking about.


You want to copy it? At least have the decency to buy a pair and work from there.

That's the best a manufacturer can hope for: if their work is going to be ripped off, then at least have the decency to be paying for the working sample.

Hi,
Sounds like you are out of your depth too.
What's the market for high end speakers? Not people that would bother with a knock off.

How many high end speaker designs are being ripped off to sell to the target market? My guess would be next to none.

I see absolutely no problem whatsoever in "cloning" a design for your own personal use, and it's ridiculous to suggest a person should buy the product to do so.
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