Hi,
I think I may have finally convinced my GF to buy me a Marantz or Sony HT receiver for my 21st...But I almost choked on checking the cost of 6.1 speaker systems. I am building a set of new front speakers at the moment, but am looking at the three rears and center next.
Concentrating on the rears, they have to be tiny and sound good. I read a forum on small cube speakers. One of the members put a Tang Band 3" speaker in a tupper wear tub and said it sounded quite reasonable.
I am planning on making two non-cube "cubes"
staked on top of each other, much the same as Bose. I will probably use Tang Band 3" full rangers.
I was just wondering what ppl thought of this idea or if there are any other small speaker (must be tiny) suggestions?
Thanks,
Gaz
I think I may have finally convinced my GF to buy me a Marantz or Sony HT receiver for my 21st...But I almost choked on checking the cost of 6.1 speaker systems. I am building a set of new front speakers at the moment, but am looking at the three rears and center next.
Concentrating on the rears, they have to be tiny and sound good. I read a forum on small cube speakers. One of the members put a Tang Band 3" speaker in a tupper wear tub and said it sounded quite reasonable.
I am planning on making two non-cube "cubes"
staked on top of each other, much the same as Bose. I will probably use Tang Band 3" full rangers.I was just wondering what ppl thought of this idea or if there are any other small speaker (must be tiny) suggestions?
Thanks,
Gaz
if you can avoid the sony gear at all costs. even their higher end ES stuff is pretty bad. (built like a tank, but sounds way harsh).
go with marantz, or even yamaha (its inexpensive, and sounds GOOD for what it is... its what i use for HT)
(i'm in A/V sales, its all i do all day, so i just A/B everything all day...)
go with marantz, or even yamaha (its inexpensive, and sounds GOOD for what it is... its what i use for HT)
(i'm in A/V sales, its all i do all day, so i just A/B everything all day...)
Gaz,
I like the 871's and want to hear about your cubes if you build them. What "small cube forum" are you referring to?
If you want smaller, I believe these:http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=SK-95&type=store are the jewel cube drivers, I've played with them and they sound better than "cubes" in just about every cab I've stuck them in, but alas nothing so small.
Cowanrg,
How do you feel about the Onkyo Hts 500 for a second system in my poker room, compared to Yamaha (or anything else) dollar-wise?
I'll be using Elf 1.5's around for the short term.
I like the 871's and want to hear about your cubes if you build them. What "small cube forum" are you referring to?
If you want smaller, I believe these:http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=SK-95&type=store are the jewel cube drivers, I've played with them and they sound better than "cubes" in just about every cab I've stuck them in, but alas nothing so small.
Cowanrg,
How do you feel about the Onkyo Hts 500 for a second system in my poker room, compared to Yamaha (or anything else) dollar-wise?
I'll be using Elf 1.5's around for the short term.
cowanrg:
I'm interested to hear your opinions on Marantz vs Sony. The review I read favored the Sony by a minute amount but said it was enough to win. The Marantz seemed to be a close second.
The Sony unit (although I can't remember the number - the Marantz was SR4300) was the "UK" version. Apparently some companies tune their products to the "taste of British hearing". I'm not sure if this is just another way to make money!
Does you opinion still stand?
x. onasis:
Here is the link: How to Make Small Cube Speakers
So it is possible to get quite good surround sound from these things. Could I build the centre the same way then? I'm still planning on two per speaker in two cabs staked on top of each other, facing at about 90 degree angles.
I am trying to get away from having to use a tweeter by using fullrange drivers. I'll make a sub for the system soon aswell.
Edit:
I've heard a few ppl mention the '871 but I couldn't see it on their website. Is it on there?!
Thanks,
Gaz
I'm interested to hear your opinions on Marantz vs Sony. The review I read favored the Sony by a minute amount but said it was enough to win. The Marantz seemed to be a close second.
The Sony unit (although I can't remember the number - the Marantz was SR4300) was the "UK" version. Apparently some companies tune their products to the "taste of British hearing". I'm not sure if this is just another way to make money!
Does you opinion still stand?
x. onasis:
Here is the link: How to Make Small Cube Speakers
So it is possible to get quite good surround sound from these things. Could I build the centre the same way then? I'm still planning on two per speaker in two cabs staked on top of each other, facing at about 90 degree angles.
I am trying to get away from having to use a tweeter by using fullrange drivers. I'll make a sub for the system soon aswell.
Edit:
I've heard a few ppl mention the '871 but I couldn't see it on their website. Is it on there?!
Thanks,
Gaz
Gaz,
I too am looking at getting a Marantz SR4300. The best price I've found so far is £259 from Richer Sounds:
http://www.richersounds.com/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=300197
The web site says this offer applies to in-store callers only.
Nice one,
David.
I too am looking at getting a Marantz SR4300. The best price I've found so far is £259 from Richer Sounds:
http://www.richersounds.com/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=300197
The web site says this offer applies to in-store callers only.
Nice one,
David.
I would also go for Yamaha. Yamaha HT receivers are just as good as Marantz.
I also heard bad things about the quality of service afterwards with marantz.
My dealer sells both Marantz and Yamaha, so he can compare.
My yamaha dvd player had a problem after 18months and they just gave me a new one, no problems.
It's possible that Marantz service is beter in the UK. I hope so for you.
Although Marantz is now an independant company. It was once owned by Philips. And they still share some of the Philips Philosophy (bad service, not to good buildquality).
As long as the thing works it's really good though...
Denon is also very good for HT, but I've had no experience with their service.
I also heard bad things about the quality of service afterwards with marantz.
My dealer sells both Marantz and Yamaha, so he can compare.
My yamaha dvd player had a problem after 18months and they just gave me a new one, no problems.
It's possible that Marantz service is beter in the UK. I hope so for you.
Although Marantz is now an independant company. It was once owned by Philips. And they still share some of the Philips Philosophy (bad service, not to good buildquality).
As long as the thing works it's really good though...
Denon is also very good for HT, but I've had no experience with their service.
mrfeedback:
Evidently! Or it might just be because I havn't gotten around to making a filter for them yet...I have the parts - but not the will...For now at least.
I have a Marantz integrated that I used before building my Monoblocks and I'm happy to say that I've never had to test the customer support!
I haven't decided which I will go for. The Sony is considerably more and the Yamaha did not seem to perform that well. I am going to audition them (something I'm usually bad for not doing) and see which I prefer. It's the only way to truely know!
Thanks,
Gaz
Evidently! Or it might just be because I havn't gotten around to making a filter for them yet...I have the parts - but not the will...For now at least.
I have a Marantz integrated that I used before building my Monoblocks and I'm happy to say that I've never had to test the customer support!
I haven't decided which I will go for. The Sony is considerably more and the Yamaha did not seem to perform that well. I am going to audition them (something I'm usually bad for not doing) and see which I prefer. It's the only way to truely know!
Thanks,
Gaz
I've auditioned a few amps before buying a Denon3201 and I have to say that the differences between different amps in the same pricerange are really small. Differences between speakers are much greater.
I always take those reviews in hifi magazines with a grain of salt. They just cant give all the amps 5 stars, readers would be to confused...
Most non-UK products get lower scores in magazines like "What Hifi". That also makes me a little suspicious.
I bet you wont be able to tell the difference between the amps you are going to audition.
Anyway, try it. It's fun to audition stuff.
I always take those reviews in hifi magazines with a grain of salt. They just cant give all the amps 5 stars, readers would be to confused...
Most non-UK products get lower scores in magazines like "What Hifi". That also makes me a little suspicious.
I bet you wont be able to tell the difference between the amps you are going to audition.
Anyway, try it. It's fun to audition stuff.
cowanrg, you sound like me, I've been selling audio since 91, sure dose give you alot more freedom to A/B stuffl
Don't get caught up in all the bells and whistles, you'll most likely use only two or three surround-sound mode at most, my last on was a top of the line integrated yamaha with 21 mode... I used 4
Selling Denon, Yamaha, Adcom, Sony, Pioneer, phillips, Onkyo, HK I chose Yamaha... twice (had to upgrade, look at the adcom...but the processor sucked) but I do have to agree with DIY Peter that the sound differences are getting smaller, my next one will be HK though, sounds so smooth.
Don't get caught up in all the bells and whistles, you'll most likely use only two or three surround-sound mode at most, my last on was a top of the line integrated yamaha with 21 mode... I used 4
Selling Denon, Yamaha, Adcom, Sony, Pioneer, phillips, Onkyo, HK I chose Yamaha... twice (had to upgrade, look at the adcom...but the processor sucked) but I do have to agree with DIY Peter that the sound differences are getting smaller, my next one will be HK though, sounds so smooth.
Hi,
I have to say one thing in defence of the mags I read: Good sound, nice looks and a well built system (and good price?) always gets a good review regardless of destination. Italian products seem to do very well!
The most important thing to me is 6.1 surround since (apparently) it is far less room depedant. I do not have a room that could be setup in the standard 5.1 way, but in a recent article, it was mentioned (for exactly my situation) that a 6.1 system could be the answer. The HK system that supports that, I believe, is £1800!!!
Nevermind!
Edit:
General spelling and punctuation.
Gaz
I have to say one thing in defence of the mags I read: Good sound, nice looks and a well built system (and good price?) always gets a good review regardless of destination. Italian products seem to do very well!
The most important thing to me is 6.1 surround since (apparently) it is far less room depedant. I do not have a room that could be setup in the standard 5.1 way, but in a recent article, it was mentioned (for exactly my situation) that a 6.1 system could be the answer. The HK system that supports that, I believe, is £1800!!!
Nevermind!
Edit:
General spelling and punctuation.
Gaz
Random thoughts.
Ask you GF to choose a reciever with pre-outs. Then you can build your own individual amps later and use them. It should be no great trick to build power amps superior to what is in the HT reciever. BTW, my HT reciever is a Pioneer VSX-D810S which was choosen for just that reason. It had some other undocumented features that made it very good for HT and at a moderate price. Now used basically as a preamp. I suggest go for the features you need and pay not one cent extra for a higher power rating.
About speaker enclosures. Is Sonotube abailable in suitably small diameters?
Ask you GF to choose a reciever with pre-outs. Then you can build your own individual amps later and use them. It should be no great trick to build power amps superior to what is in the HT reciever. BTW, my HT reciever is a Pioneer VSX-D810S which was choosen for just that reason. It had some other undocumented features that made it very good for HT and at a moderate price. Now used basically as a preamp. I suggest go for the features you need and pay not one cent extra for a higher power rating.
About speaker enclosures. Is Sonotube abailable in suitably small diameters?
Already thought of that! Both the Marantz and Sony have full pre outs. I am intending on using my monoblocks for the fronts and eventually (as you said) use it as a processor / preamp.
I do not know a distributor of Sonotube in the UK, and after a recent argument with AudioXpress, and a £37.50 importation tax that they say is compulsary (although I've never had to pay one before) - I'd rather not order from accross the pond!
Gaz
Both the Marantz and Sony have full pre outs. I am intending on using my monoblocks for the fronts and eventually (as you said) use it as a processor / preamp.I do not know a distributor of Sonotube in the UK, and after a recent argument with AudioXpress, and a £37.50 importation tax that they say is compulsary (although I've never had to pay one before) - I'd rather not order from accross the pond!
Gaz
marantz caution
I just went through this with a friend who's buying a HT receiver, and we spent two weeks comparing lots of stuff. One thing to note is that we went to a long-time marantz dealer and asked about them, and even though she had one sitting there she said they don't want to sell them any more because of too many problems. In fact she was out that morning pulling a busted one from someone's system. She quoted a very high failure rate, and says other dealers have concurred.
As far as sound quality, were were looking at probably a step or two higher ($1200 range) and I should say that sony came close to the bottom. It was harsh and not very involving. Yamaha was next. Also not a very rich and full sound. The one I never heard was marantz. Denon was the best of the mass market, and integra(onkyo) was very good too although I didn't get to compare to the denon side by side. Arcam won hands down in sound quality, but inputs & features were lacking. Best overall was rotel in terms of best combination of sound, features, and looks (it won that category )
We also stumbled onto comparing digital connections and got some results that surprised me. When we put in the toslink cable, (synthetic, $30) we both immediately noticed a lack of bass as compared to the marantz cdp rca out. Went to the dealer and she suggested a glass fiber cable ($130) which we borrowed . Tried that and bass was better, but in a blind test I still prefered the marantz out (although maybe thats the dac) However, we also tried digital coax (using a very cheap rca cable intended for video!) and that beat the glass toslink. so it seems that toslink pretty much sucks. I thought digital would have made cable differences go away... oh well
I just went through this with a friend who's buying a HT receiver, and we spent two weeks comparing lots of stuff. One thing to note is that we went to a long-time marantz dealer and asked about them, and even though she had one sitting there she said they don't want to sell them any more because of too many problems. In fact she was out that morning pulling a busted one from someone's system. She quoted a very high failure rate, and says other dealers have concurred.
As far as sound quality, were were looking at probably a step or two higher ($1200 range) and I should say that sony came close to the bottom. It was harsh and not very involving. Yamaha was next. Also not a very rich and full sound. The one I never heard was marantz. Denon was the best of the mass market, and integra(onkyo) was very good too although I didn't get to compare to the denon side by side. Arcam won hands down in sound quality, but inputs & features were lacking. Best overall was rotel in terms of best combination of sound, features, and looks (it won that category
)We also stumbled onto comparing digital connections and got some results that surprised me. When we put in the toslink cable, (synthetic, $30) we both immediately noticed a lack of bass as compared to the marantz cdp rca out. Went to the dealer and she suggested a glass fiber cable ($130) which we borrowed . Tried that and bass was better, but in a blind test I still prefered the marantz out (although maybe thats the dac) However, we also tried digital coax (using a very cheap rca cable intended for video!) and that beat the glass toslink. so it seems that toslink pretty much sucks. I thought digital would have made cable differences go away... oh well
Evaas said:
I have an HT system built around an Arcam Alpha 10 with the Dave module, and it easily beats the competition in sound quality up to twice it's price, and it is also very good with stereo, and that is where a lot of multi channel boxes fall down.
Features may be lacking in comparison to far eastern boxes, but for best quality sound, you shouldn't be running video switching/routing as well, leave that to the TV.
If you can Rarkov, I would pick up a used Dave system, you should be able to get one for around £400 these days. Yes, it only has 5 channels of surround, but mine has played in some difficult rooms successfully, and bear in mind, most region 2 DVDs don't have 6 tracks anyway!
I too have noticed that toslink sounds rubbish in comparison with a wired connection, but I will leave the reasons for this to others to debate.
As to speakers, building a 2 cube version of the ELFs would be my recommendation. The W3-871s seem to be the clear winner in the TB fidelity race. These are only available in Canada from Creative (my choice) or Neura, but the pin-cushion basket equivalent may be available locally. (Going Canada to the UK should be less a problem than from the US)
As to HT receivers i can second ARCAM & Rotel, but no one has mentioned NAD... that would be my choice (although i choose to go separates).
dave
As to HT receivers i can second ARCAM & Rotel, but no one has mentioned NAD... that would be my choice (although i choose to go separates).
dave
why not use the 871s for all 5-6 channels?
from what i hear they sell in boxes of 20.
3 per rears and center (12 drivers)
4 per front (8 drivers)
front
1 driver full range on top
3 in series bass reinforcement (baffle step compensation)
rear
2 driversfull range (dipole/bipole experiment)
1 driver for baffle step
center
1 driver full range flanked by 2 drivers fro baffle step
someday when i get time and if the 871s are still around...
was out of the loop for a while...got involved in a tech startup (we know who that market is).
from what i hear they sell in boxes of 20.
3 per rears and center (12 drivers)
4 per front (8 drivers)
front
1 driver full range on top
3 in series bass reinforcement (baffle step compensation)
rear
2 driversfull range (dipole/bipole experiment)
1 driver for baffle step
center
1 driver full range flanked by 2 drivers fro baffle step
someday when i get time and if the 871s are still around...
was out of the loop for a while...got involved in a tech startup (we know who that market is).
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