Esotar 330: Measured Science or Mystical Fiction?

[leifislive]

Hi,

I was wondering, whether the Dynaudio Esotar 330 can hold up - or potentially outperform - meaurement wise those recently developed tweeters from Peerless, Scanspeak, Seas etc.
As an evidence grade B I would also "accept" an "expert-opinion" of someone, who has auditioned the Esotar and current top-line tweeter...

Can anyone help me?
I would be extremely thankful for answers!

Best regards
Leif

[HiFiNutNut]

I have both the Esotar T330D and the Seas Millenium. I think a subjective comparison is very difficult, if possible. Unless there are two identical speakers with the difference of only the tweeters, and both responses are tailored to be the same, and we listen to it on axis in a highly dampped room. The Seas Millenium has only a 110mm diameter, wherease the Esotar T330D has a 140mm diameter, so they won't fit into the same panel cut.

My preference is the Esotar but don't like its larger diameter, but since the tweeters are mounted in completely different speakers so bluntly saying the Esotar is better can be very wrong. Possibly the midwoofers' contribution in the XO region has more influence to the perceived "tweeter sound" than that from the tweeter.

So I would be rather interested in any objective measurements comparing the Esotar to other good modern tweeters.

Regards,
Bill

[leifislive]

Bill, I thank you and think... do you have a measurement mic ... ?

I am tempted to buy you one...

[HiFiNutNut]

I have got the ECM8000 mic, soundcard, etc. I am only in the process of learning to set up Speaker Workshop to do some impedance and FR measurements. I have no experience yet measuring anything including doing distortion tests. I will possibly do it one day. My wife has gone away for a few days leaving 3 kids all under 7 to me, so everything has to be put aside for the time being.

Regards,
Bill

[HiFiNutNut]

Subjectively, in my very well implemented WWMTMWW speaker with the peerless HDS 5" mid, the sound from the Esotar crossed at 3k, 4th order LR was so nice (light, airy and smooth even in high power passages) that the tweeter did not appear to EXIST, just music, no colouring.

The Seas Millenium is installed in the NaO. The midwoofer SS8545 6.5" is not as smooth as the HDS 5" in the 2k to 4k region and the XO point is around 2.3kHz so I found the "tweeter" performance is not as good as the Esotar. But who knows, as said, I believe the SS8545's imfluence may be greater than the Seas Millenium in the perceived tweeter sound.

Then I guess the Seas Millenium might be better than the new Peerless tweeter based on my impression from listening to the later. But once again, completely different speakers and set up so this is far from any conclusion. From Zath's site, I guess the HDS would be more useful than the Seas because of its higher sensitivity at 93dB. For me, the Seas has 87dB sensitivity only and I don't like systems to be that inefficient.

But blindly, I would take the Esotar due to its over spec construction, high power handling, and high sensitivity at 93dB. The large face plate will force the XO to be low, though.

[leifislive]

Thanks again Bill, good luck with your kids...

I would - from a theoretical point of view - completely agree to your analysis. I think unlinearities in the 1k to 5k region are extremely audible (I am a cello-player and no classical (7''+1'') 2-way design ever reprodced a "natural" sound of strings - I suppose due to IMD and cone problems of mid-woofers >1k).

So maybe, we will see. I just might build an all Dynaudio System (I have a 30w, d76 and an esotar in spe...)

Regards,
Leif

[tktran303]

Personally I find it impossible to judge individual tweeters. I find it easier to judge whole systems.

It is probably difficult to judge a tweeter fairly when they are in different speakers. There are just too many confounding factors.

The best we can do is to have the different tweeters installed in the same speakers, with the same crossover point/slope and to modify the crossover to yield the same on-axis frequency response.

But even then differences in linear and non-linear distortion, off axis/power response, impedance swing etc may contribute to the way they sound different.

One tweeter may measure "worse" in a certain parameter, but it may be better in another. When they are closely matched, why do we prefer one to the other?

Which is the best tyre for my sports car?

regards,
Thanh.

[leifislive]

That is why I was asking for measurement facts...

[leifislive]

I did it... started to work myself through ARTA; not so difficult at all: However, I cannot save in the demo mode and post the results.

I did not calibrate the setup. I just did a quick an dirty AB t330d vs. Peerless WA10 with my Schoeps mk21 microphone (which is a 1/2'' wide cardioid and therefore not completely linear and shows significant beaming at >10k...)

Here we go:

The frequency response is almost identical to the WA10; yet the WA10 shows some fluctuations in the 10k> region. Since the mk21 is not calibrated I will post a freq-response, as soon as my measurement mic (MBHO MN550) arrives.

Off axis is as expected.

The data do not completely fit the Dynaudio specs. That is probably my mic.

Distortion level is at 2.83V <0.3%. That's good I suppose

Did not do a waterfall yet.

I will use it with my D76 and cut the faceplate of the t330. I also measured, that bringing both units close until the magnets are side by side does not change the distortion level. I therefore suppose, it is ok to bring speakers as close as possible without having trouble.

Best

[Pan]

The better tweeters of today has better performance distortionwise then T330D but it's still a very good tweeter.


/Peter