Ok, speakers are done! It’s late now so I haven’t been able to take some well lit pictures of the end result so those will have to wait until tomorrow. As for sound, well I can say the past 4 hours have been spent listening to lots of different music, a nod to the quality of this design I think. Congrats John and Pano, they really are great sounding speakers! They make a big spacious soundscape, with lots of detail and full deep bass.
I know it is hard to gauge the sound from people’s impressions is difficiult. The various descriptions had led me to expect less from the low end especially. They exceed my expectations with impressively deep and full bass. They are also very revealing of the limitations of some source material, particularly some live recordings. We’ve been powering them with a simple class d 3116 amp, so I am really looking forward to trying them ona nice class a amp like my F6.
I have some questions to the tuning but those will come when I am back at my pc and can post some pictures as well.
Thanks for making such a great diy project available, a strong recommendation from my side for the Manzanita!
I know it is hard to gauge the sound from people’s impressions is difficiult. The various descriptions had led me to expect less from the low end especially. They exceed my expectations with impressively deep and full bass. They are also very revealing of the limitations of some source material, particularly some live recordings. We’ve been powering them with a simple class d 3116 amp, so I am really looking forward to trying them ona nice class a amp like my F6.
I have some questions to the tuning but those will come when I am back at my pc and can post some pictures as well.
Thanks for making such a great diy project available, a strong recommendation from my side for the Manzanita!
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Hey John,
Yes, we moved the speakers far out into my parents living room the next day and that really made them shine. Big, spacious soundstage with lots of detail and nice tonal balance. My dad is very happy with them, and i would be too (if i had the space for them)!
I came right back to a busy work week so i only just had time to sort through the pictures and pick out some good ones (see below):
The first challenge (after getting the wood cut by our friendly neighbour for a few bottles of wine) was to figure out the rebate to flush mount the Vifa. After some experimentation i think we managed something decent
Finished baffle. I decided for a relatively shallow rebate to fit the edge of the woofer (which curves down towards the outside). A mm more would also have worked. Note also: don't try to route 18mm beech in one go, you will break the bit
Gluing up. We decided to use both screws and glue, and i think that came out nicely and quite discreet.
Finished the wood part. We made the base extra long as we didnt know where the centre of balance would be exactly. 20 cm could easily be removed as they are very sturdy.
finished speaker with crossover and drivers mounted. Caps are claritycap esa. I couldnt get 6 µf so i paralleled 5.6 and 0.33. I also bought another 0.33 which can be added later if needed. The coils are Jantzen.
Right speaker. As an added bonus, the base also serves nicely as a shelf for various household or decorative objects for added WAF (or a monoblock, for reduced WAF).
Left speaker, WAF-modified. We did a small 1mm profile on the edges, which adds a nice line that frames the baffle.
All in all i think they have come out quite well. The wood was cheap 18mm beech intended for shelving (around $20-25 for 1 piece 40mm wide and 2m long). They were not the most square or even (some were a bit wider), but that was sorted out nicely by our neighbour in the cutting process.
Thanks again for the design, this was as good an excuse as any for me to spend time with my dad building something, and the end result is a fantastic sounding speaker
TL;DR, this is a serious bang for buck speaker if you have the space. Just do it!
Yes, we moved the speakers far out into my parents living room the next day and that really made them shine. Big, spacious soundstage with lots of detail and nice tonal balance. My dad is very happy with them, and i would be too (if i had the space for them)!
I came right back to a busy work week so i only just had time to sort through the pictures and pick out some good ones (see below):
The first challenge (after getting the wood cut by our friendly neighbour for a few bottles of wine) was to figure out the rebate to flush mount the Vifa. After some experimentation i think we managed something decent
Finished baffle. I decided for a relatively shallow rebate to fit the edge of the woofer (which curves down towards the outside). A mm more would also have worked. Note also: don't try to route 18mm beech in one go, you will break the bit
Gluing up. We decided to use both screws and glue, and i think that came out nicely and quite discreet.
Finished the wood part. We made the base extra long as we didnt know where the centre of balance would be exactly. 20 cm could easily be removed as they are very sturdy.
finished speaker with crossover and drivers mounted. Caps are claritycap esa. I couldnt get 6 µf so i paralleled 5.6 and 0.33. I also bought another 0.33 which can be added later if needed. The coils are Jantzen.
Right speaker. As an added bonus, the base also serves nicely as a shelf for various household or decorative objects for added WAF (or a monoblock, for reduced WAF).
Left speaker, WAF-modified. We did a small 1mm profile on the edges, which adds a nice line that frames the baffle.
All in all i think they have come out quite well. The wood was cheap 18mm beech intended for shelving (around $20-25 for 1 piece 40mm wide and 2m long). They were not the most square or even (some were a bit wider), but that was sorted out nicely by our neighbour in the cutting process.
Thanks again for the design, this was as good an excuse as any for me to spend time with my dad building something, and the end result is a fantastic sounding speaker
TL;DR, this is a serious bang for buck speaker if you have the space. Just do it!
Attachments
John, that describes me well. Not even an entire apartment. Call it a dormitory room. I am waiting for updates as you outlined above. I cannot locate the Peerless where I live. When I do, it is no longer an inexpensive project.
If you would take a quick look at this woofer, I'd be most thankful. I tried to look for one with similar Fs and Qts to the Peerless, but this one has higher sensitivity.
Resonance Frequency Fs 31 Hz
DC resistance Re 7.2 ohm
Mechanical Factor Qms 3.94
Electical Factor Qes 0.65
Total Factor Qts 0.56
BL Factor BL 10 N/A
Effective moving mass Mms 46.7 Gram
Equivalent cas air load Vas 203.6 Liter
Effective piston area Sd 510.7 Cm2
Voice coil inductance Le 0.60 mH
Half space efficiency Eff 0.91 %
Thanks for your generosity with your time and knowledge.
Hello Johnathan There is not a minimum room size per se, the important dimension is distance away from rear wall and side walls. In most rooms the further out you can place the speaker, the better it sounds in terms of tonal balance and sound stage. From rear of the baffle you really need at least 36", 48" is better. After 48" you still can see some performance improvement, but not as much change you get from 36" to 48". This is a general outcome and your results may very. Once you are 30" away from a side wall you are going to be OK. A listening distance in front of the speaker should be at least 6' and 8'-12' seems to be typical for most users. Hope this info helps. Good luck with your project!
I found aGRS replacement in The EU
The specs looks just Rights to me, and The Price is aroynd 25/30 euro.
Mit dem SoundLab L042Q haben Sie zum Low-Cost-Preis den richtigen Bass für Ihre Offene Schallwand oder Partybox mit tiefreichendem Frequenzgang und durch die Grösse spürbaren Druck.
Stabiler Stahlkorb, belastbare 50mm-Schwingspule, Leinensicke, 14.1er Magnet, 92dB/W, fs:35.8Hz, Qts:1.55, Vas:207l, 250 Wmax, 8 Ohm, 3000g, Durchmesser 382mm/354mm, stabile beschichtete Membran und Dustcap, Polkernbohrung, 30-4200 Hz.
Sehr linear bis 1600 Hz.
The specs looks just Rights to me, and The Price is aroynd 25/30 euro.
Mit dem SoundLab L042Q haben Sie zum Low-Cost-Preis den richtigen Bass für Ihre Offene Schallwand oder Partybox mit tiefreichendem Frequenzgang und durch die Grösse spürbaren Druck.
Stabiler Stahlkorb, belastbare 50mm-Schwingspule, Leinensicke, 14.1er Magnet, 92dB/W, fs:35.8Hz, Qts:1.55, Vas:207l, 250 Wmax, 8 Ohm, 3000g, Durchmesser 382mm/354mm, stabile beschichtete Membran und Dustcap, Polkernbohrung, 30-4200 Hz.
Sehr linear bis 1600 Hz.
Thanks for posting.. looks very similar to the GRS.. but they don't provide T/
S values that can validate exactly what this 15 inch woofer is. I guess it is difficult to fix stupid... either they are serious about what they are selling or are foolish amatures! So sad! Simple measurements.... that is all anyone can ask! So. Is there anyway to motivate this outfit to spend 10 seconds and measure, post the T/S params? GEEZZZZ! So close yet so far!!
S values that can validate exactly what this 15 inch woofer is. I guess it is difficult to fix stupid... either they are serious about what they are selling or are foolish amatures! So sad! Simple measurements.... that is all anyone can ask! So. Is there anyway to motivate this outfit to spend 10 seconds and measure, post the T/S params? GEEZZZZ! So close yet so far!!
Hi John.
I had a conversation with the gernman deales -he claims that low cost manufacters does not provide any reliable data, and therefore he did some measurements himself:
I hope you can read the german without translation.
It this driver in your opinion (a useable replacement for the GSR ???
Its around 30 - 35 euro, which equals 35-40 USD
Berechnet durch LS-PARAM V1.6 (C) HTH
SoundLab L042Q 15"
======================
Gleichstromwiderstand R : 7.20 Ohm
Schwingspuleninduktivit„t L : 326u H
Resonanzfrequenz fs : 35.8 Hz
Mechanischer Q-Faktor Qm : 6.71
Elektrischer Q-Faktor Qe : 2.02
Gesamt-Q-Faktor Qts : 1.55
-3dB-Bandbreite (Free-Air) : 24.9-3.52k Hz
-8dB-Bandbreite (Free-Air) : 19.9-8.10k Hz
Impedanzmaximum bei fs : 31.1 Ohm
Wirkungsgrad : 90.4 dB/W/m
Žquivalentvolumen Vas : 207 l
Membrandurchmesser / -fl„che : 32.7 cm/ 839 cmý
Aufh„ngungsfederkonstante D : 3.45 N/mm
Reibungskoeffizient ær : 2.29 Ns/m
Effektiv bewegte Masse m : 68.2 g
Antriebskraftfaktor B*l : 7.40 N/A
I had a conversation with the gernman deales -he claims that low cost manufacters does not provide any reliable data, and therefore he did some measurements himself:
I hope you can read the german without translation.
It this driver in your opinion (a useable replacement for the GSR ???
Its around 30 - 35 euro, which equals 35-40 USD
Berechnet durch LS-PARAM V1.6 (C) HTH
SoundLab L042Q 15"
======================
Gleichstromwiderstand R : 7.20 Ohm
Schwingspuleninduktivit„t L : 326u H
Resonanzfrequenz fs : 35.8 Hz
Mechanischer Q-Faktor Qm : 6.71
Elektrischer Q-Faktor Qe : 2.02
Gesamt-Q-Faktor Qts : 1.55
-3dB-Bandbreite (Free-Air) : 24.9-3.52k Hz
-8dB-Bandbreite (Free-Air) : 19.9-8.10k Hz
Impedanzmaximum bei fs : 31.1 Ohm
Wirkungsgrad : 90.4 dB/W/m
Žquivalentvolumen Vas : 207 l
Membrandurchmesser / -fl„che : 32.7 cm/ 839 cmý
Aufh„ngungsfederkonstante D : 3.45 N/mm
Reibungskoeffizient ær : 2.29 Ns/m
Effektiv bewegte Masse m : 68.2 g
Antriebskraftfaktor B*l : 7.40 N/A
citronix: Thanks for posting the data. Thanks to you and the speaker dealer for taking the time to make the data available.
It all looks good so far.... however, I don't see the Xmax (peak one way cone linear travel in mm) and cone area (SD) data usually express in sq. cm. Those two data points are very important. Need them to calculate the drivers usable Volume of Displacement (VD) in CC's. We need at least 380 CC or so to be viable in the Manzanita design. More is always better up to around 800 cc. This would equate to around 8 mm of Xmax and low cost drivers with a lot of Xmax tend to be noisy with major cone break up(s) at lower frequencies. A frequency sweep would be good too.
It all looks good so far.... however, I don't see the Xmax (peak one way cone linear travel in mm) and cone area (SD) data usually express in sq. cm. Those two data points are very important. Need them to calculate the drivers usable Volume of Displacement (VD) in CC's. We need at least 380 CC or so to be viable in the Manzanita design. More is always better up to around 800 cc. This would equate to around 8 mm of Xmax and low cost drivers with a lot of Xmax tend to be noisy with major cone break up(s) at lower frequencies. A frequency sweep would be good too.
Import Tax
Hi
Well just to explain to somebody in the USA, there is a 4% point tax (means specific tax to specific product) to loudspeaker drivers in Denmark.
On top of those 4 % comes the VAT of 25 % in Denmark for items purchased outside of the EU. Technically I might be able to get the VAT from the american dealer refunded.
But the real cost here for me is shipping. So the cheap driver will probably double or triple its price before I have it in my hands.
best regards
Uwe
Hi
Well just to explain to somebody in the USA, there is a 4% point tax (means specific tax to specific product) to loudspeaker drivers in Denmark.
On top of those 4 % comes the VAT of 25 % in Denmark for items purchased outside of the EU. Technically I might be able to get the VAT from the american dealer refunded.
But the real cost here for me is shipping. So the cheap driver will probably double or triple its price before I have it in my hands.
best regards
Uwe