Johno... almost forgot.... well I did forget... the wings will help some with the Peerless, but with it's lower Q, not as much as with the GRS 15. You would see a bit of efficiency gain which may require some pad and High Pass capacitor adjustments. If you do experiment, would be interesting to know what you find out.
SJ The wing depth(s) I ended up with is based on quite a bit of experimentation, and listening. Once I went beyond the 2.5" up front and the 5" in back, I could start hearing changes. Not all bad BTW, but away from the original concept clarity and balance. So I think I got about as much "free" improvements as I could without messing up what the Manzanita does well.
Free refers to construction costs remaining basically the same, save the extra "sweat" equity. The crossover will require some adjustments... lower pad resistor value and tweaking the high pass cap value upward a couple of MFD. As in the past, adjust to suit your taste, specific driver realities and room conditions. Nice thing about adjusting the cap is you can just add a bit at a time parallel to the existing cap. 0.5 MFD increments once or twice than how many 0.1 it takes until the sound snaps into place.
Can't give you an exact Pad resistor value change. Don't know where you are now and the Vifa and GRS can vary a bit. All that adds up. Suspect most would see a 1-3 ohm drop in the pad value.
I encourage you experiment with temporary card board wings and see if you like what you hear. Good luck!
Can't give you an exact Pad resistor value change. Don't know where you are now and the Vifa and GRS can vary a bit. All that adds up. Suspect most would see a 1-3 ohm drop in the pad value.
I encourage you experiment with temporary card board wings and see if you like what you hear. Good luck!
John Busch, it was just a thought as I have 2 each of the GSR 12 and 15" and the thought occurred of using 1 each those on each baffle parallel, similar to the Ultra Plus, but with the Vifa 3". Total area of a 12" + 15" would be about 900 sq in compared to the 15" 550 sq in. In theory, I think this should lower the F3. I am certainly not an expert in this area so I may be completely wrong. Like I said, just a thought.
blp... Thanks for the added info! I would not recommend putting the GRS 12 and 15 together on the same OB baffle driven by the same amplifier.... They will sound different due to each cone diameter has it's own and specific break up frequency and sonic signature. The 12 is half the efficiency of the 15 with a bit less X-Max. Can they play together, sure. Is it likely to work well, not so much. You could play a bit an share with us what you learn....
BTW, the above applies to OB - cardioid applications.... but it would be an absolute no.. no in any box they would share the same air volume. The 15 would really push the smaller 12 around, likely to failure.
Hope the above make sense!
BTW, the above applies to OB - cardioid applications.... but it would be an absolute no.. no in any box they would share the same air volume. The 15 would really push the smaller 12 around, likely to failure.
Hope the above make sense!
John Busch, even though I didn't think along those lines, it makes sense. I have come to the conclusion, especially in regards to your OB design, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".
What I might do is build the Ultra with the 15s and the 12" stand version. I might be able to hide the 12" version in the living room without my wife noticing!
Thanks again John and Pano.
What I might do is build the Ultra with the 15s and the 12" stand version. I might be able to hide the 12" version in the living room without my wife noticing!
Thanks again John and Pano.
The 2018 Lone Star Audio Fest is happening May 4th, 5th and 6th in Dallas, Texas. The show is pretty low key and if you find a room you like there's a pretty good chance you'll get enough seat time to be able to get a good impression. John is bringing an open baffle speaker and a couple of boxes(!!).
http://lonestaraudiofest.com/
The show is also bringing back their seminars, this time on Sunday:
Sunday, May 6th:
12:00 to 1:00pm “Tape History Seminar”, by Charles King
1:00pm to 2:00pm “Crossover Electronics 101″, by Wayne Parham
2:00pm to 3:00pm “Digital Audio Demystified”, by Steven Solazzo
3:00pm to 4:00pm “Details in Audio”, by Scott Sheaffer
There is no cost to attend unless you want to get a room at the hotel and spend the weekend. The equipment ranges from reasonably priced to expensive to very much more than expensive. There are several manufacturers that have rooms there, too, and the designers are generally happy to discuss all things audio. It's a great weekend.
http://lonestaraudiofest.com/
The show is also bringing back their seminars, this time on Sunday:
Sunday, May 6th:
12:00 to 1:00pm “Tape History Seminar”, by Charles King
1:00pm to 2:00pm “Crossover Electronics 101″, by Wayne Parham
2:00pm to 3:00pm “Digital Audio Demystified”, by Steven Solazzo
3:00pm to 4:00pm “Details in Audio”, by Scott Sheaffer
There is no cost to attend unless you want to get a room at the hotel and spend the weekend. The equipment ranges from reasonably priced to expensive to very much more than expensive. There are several manufacturers that have rooms there, too, and the designers are generally happy to discuss all things audio. It's a great weekend.
Here are a couple of photos from John's room at the Lone Star show. These pics were pilfered from Facebook.
The big OB's were fine. Probably pretty similar to the Ultra Plus's John brought about 3 or 4 years ago but in a smaller footprint. They can move some air.
The boxes were surprising as they didn't sound small or shy and had the dynamics thing down cold. Even the tiny ones could thwack.
It was a good show.
The big OB's were fine. Probably pretty similar to the Ultra Plus's John brought about 3 or 4 years ago but in a smaller footprint. They can move some air.
The boxes were surprising as they didn't sound small or shy and had the dynamics thing down cold. Even the tiny ones could thwack.
It was a good show.
Attachments
Widow Maker III
Pano...
Would like to discuss the new speaker, but as it is intended to be a commercial product, I don't feel right about discussing too much as this is DIY.
The basics are pretty obvious from the pictures. A 3 way with dual 15 inch subs on an asymmetrical "H" frame, 6.5" mid-bass / mid Range pretty much OB, and wave guide loaded tweet. Passive crossover. My attempt at getting full range performance with decent efficiency from the smallest foot print possible with out resorting to custom drivers. It was well received at LSAF last week and some have been ordered.
Hope that will be enough without abusing the forum.
Pano...
Would like to discuss the new speaker, but as it is intended to be a commercial product, I don't feel right about discussing too much as this is DIY.
The basics are pretty obvious from the pictures. A 3 way with dual 15 inch subs on an asymmetrical "H" frame, 6.5" mid-bass / mid Range pretty much OB, and wave guide loaded tweet. Passive crossover. My attempt at getting full range performance with decent efficiency from the smallest foot print possible with out resorting to custom drivers. It was well received at LSAF last week and some have been ordered.
Hope that will be enough without abusing the forum.
finished manzanitas
Hi,
I have finished my pair of manzanitas. I made the regular manzanitas with the GRS woofer.
It ended up costing 450 euros (importing grs woofer from US to Belgium was not cheap, I did buy 2 pairs of woofers and sold one pair to a dutch guy who is making a pair of manzanitas at the moment
).
I used birch plywood and treated them with hardwood oil. They look amazing, the most cool speakers I have ever owned.
I used 6uF capacitor (5.6+0.4 together), 8.2ohm pad, 15ohm trap
The sound:
Things I like:
-big soundstage
-amazing bass (the best I have heard, especially with blues music and music like the white stripes, also acoustic instrumental sounds great).
Things I dont like:
-the 100 - 200 hz region sounds a little recessed
-my neighbours are not happy with the bass (I live in a small row house with neighbours at both sides), I might sell them for this reason to make something smaller
Maybe the sound will improve with breaking in.
Anyway I am happy with the build. They sound amazing with certain genres of music. Thanks for the design of the speakers.
Pieter
Hi,
I have finished my pair of manzanitas. I made the regular manzanitas with the GRS woofer.
It ended up costing 450 euros (importing grs woofer from US to Belgium was not cheap, I did buy 2 pairs of woofers and sold one pair to a dutch guy who is making a pair of manzanitas at the moment
).I used birch plywood and treated them with hardwood oil. They look amazing, the most cool speakers I have ever owned.
I used 6uF capacitor (5.6+0.4 together), 8.2ohm pad, 15ohm trap
The sound:
Things I like:
-big soundstage
-amazing bass (the best I have heard, especially with blues music and music like the white stripes, also acoustic instrumental sounds great).
Things I dont like:
-the 100 - 200 hz region sounds a little recessed
-my neighbours are not happy with the bass (I live in a small row house with neighbours at both sides), I might sell them for this reason to make something smaller
Maybe the sound will improve with breaking in.
Anyway I am happy with the build. They sound amazing with certain genres of music. Thanks for the design of the speakers.
Pieter
