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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
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Old 10th June 2018, 02:42 PM   #1851
jwicaksana is offline jwicaksana  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Busch View Post
OK.. I have been dropping hints about an updated DIY Manzanita... optimizing the design... with the main focus being a typical (what ever that is) builder, for an example, a apartment dweller (been there, - done that) being able to fabricate the updated design with basic wood working tools.

Main focus, keeping the component costs at an absolute minimum, keeping the wood working at an absolute minimum and keeping all the other aspects of the project as simple as possible.

The one aspect of this, and for that mater, any DIY project, is to decide, and or assume the abilities of the individual that would tackle the project. And most of us know the assume acronym... Don't make an *** out of you or me!

Let me be clear, when I say "abilities", I am speaking to real world, real life realities. You live in an apartment. Or a high end development with some crazy who is, ready, wants, Hell, can't wait to turn you in for home owners association restriction and so on. I am talking about personal realities. Then there is the WAF issue. Good luck on that one!

Getting back to it.... I intend to start releasing the latest design, tweaks and all. Don't expect much, more refinement - evolution than anything else. But, they do add up. A little more efficiency, a bit more dynamics. A slightly more reveling mid range. And most of this stuff can be retrofitted to existing Manzanita's.
John, that describes me well. Not even an entire apartment. Call it a dormitory room. I am waiting for updates as you outlined above. I cannot locate the Peerless where I live. When I do, it is no longer an inexpensive project.
If you would take a quick look at this woofer, I'd be most thankful. I tried to look for one with similar Fs and Qts to the Peerless, but this one has higher sensitivity.

Resonance Frequency Fs 31 Hz
DC resistance Re 7.2 ohm
Mechanical Factor Qms 3.94
Electical Factor Qes 0.65
Total Factor Qts 0.56
BL Factor BL 10 N/A
Effective moving mass Mms 46.7 Gram
Equivalent cas air load Vas 203.6 Liter
Effective piston area Sd 510.7 Cm2
Voice coil inductance Le 0.60 mH
Half space efficiency Eff 0.91 %

Thanks for your generosity with your time and knowledge.
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Old 10th June 2018, 02:49 PM   #1852
John Busch is offline John Busch  United States
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Hello Johnathan There is not a minimum room size per se, the important dimension is distance away from rear wall and side walls. In most rooms the further out you can place the speaker, the better it sounds in terms of tonal balance and sound stage. From rear of the baffle you really need at least 36", 48" is better. After 48" you still can see some performance improvement, but not as much change you get from 36" to 48". This is a general outcome and your results may very. Once you are 30" away from a side wall you are going to be OK. A listening distance in front of the speaker should be at least 6' and 8'-12' seems to be typical for most users. Hope this info helps. Good luck with your project!
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Old 11th June 2018, 03:17 PM   #1853
jwicaksana is offline jwicaksana  Indonesia
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Hi John, thank you for getting back to me. Those dimensions - I need to put this project on the back burner for now. I don't have the space. But it's okay. All in good time. Thanks again.
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:46 PM   #1854
citronix is offline citronix
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I found aGRS replacement in The EU

The specs looks just Rights to me, and The Price is aroynd 25/30 euro.

Mit dem SoundLab L042Q haben Sie zum Low-Cost-Preis den richtigen Bass für Ihre Offene Schallwand oder Partybox mit tiefreichendem Frequenzgang und durch die Grösse spürbaren Druck.
Stabiler Stahlkorb, belastbare 50mm-Schwingspule, Leinensicke, 14.1er Magnet, 92dB/W, fs:35.8Hz, Qts:1.55, Vas:207l, 250 Wmax, 8 Ohm, 3000g, Durchmesser 382mm/354mm, stabile beschichtete Membran und Dustcap, Polkernbohrung, 30-4200 Hz.
Sehr linear bis 1600 Hz.
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Old 24th June 2018, 11:28 PM   #1855
John Busch is offline John Busch  United States
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Thanks for posting.. looks very similar to the GRS.. but they don't provide T/
S values that can validate exactly what this 15 inch woofer is. I guess it is difficult to fix stupid... either they are serious about what they are selling or are foolish amatures! So sad! Simple measurements.... that is all anyone can ask! So. Is there anyway to motivate this outfit to spend 10 seconds and measure, post the T/S params? GEEZZZZ! So close yet so far!!
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:14 PM   #1856
citronix is offline citronix
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Hi John.

I had a conversation with the gernman deales -he claims that low cost manufacters does not provide any reliable data, and therefore he did some measurements himself:

I hope you can read the german without translation.

It this driver in your opinion (a useable replacement for the GSR ???

Its around 30 - 35 euro, which equals 35-40 USD

Berechnet durch LS-PARAM V1.6 (C) HTH

SoundLab L042Q 15"
======================
Gleichstromwiderstand R : 7.20 Ohm
Schwingspuleninduktivit„t L : 326u H
Resonanzfrequenz fs : 35.8 Hz
Mechanischer Q-Faktor Qm : 6.71
Elektrischer Q-Faktor Qe : 2.02
Gesamt-Q-Faktor Qts : 1.55
-3dB-Bandbreite (Free-Air) : 24.9-3.52k Hz
-8dB-Bandbreite (Free-Air) : 19.9-8.10k Hz
Impedanzmaximum bei fs : 31.1 Ohm
Wirkungsgrad : 90.4 dB/W/m
Žquivalentvolumen Vas : 207 l
Membrandurchmesser / -fl„che : 32.7 cm/ 839 cmý
Aufh„ngungsfederkonstante D : 3.45 N/mm
Reibungskoeffizient ær : 2.29 Ns/m
Effektiv bewegte Masse m : 68.2 g
Antriebskraftfaktor B*l : 7.40 N/A
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Old 27th June 2018, 09:34 PM   #1857
John Busch is offline John Busch  United States
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citronix: Thanks for posting the data. Thanks to you and the speaker dealer for taking the time to make the data available.

It all looks good so far.... however, I don't see the Xmax (peak one way cone linear travel in mm) and cone area (SD) data usually express in sq. cm. Those two data points are very important. Need them to calculate the drivers usable Volume of Displacement (VD) in CC's. We need at least 380 CC or so to be viable in the Manzanita design. More is always better up to around 800 cc. This would equate to around 8 mm of Xmax and low cost drivers with a lot of Xmax tend to be noisy with major cone break up(s) at lower frequencies. A frequency sweep would be good too.
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Old 15th July 2018, 05:20 PM   #1858
sonidos is offline sonidos  United States
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Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
Default Getting there

A friend of mine asked that I build him a pair and he was fine with his pair as the prototype. My own pair will come together faster thanks to the practice.
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Old 16th July 2018, 12:27 PM   #1859
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
Excellent! Nice that your friend will accept your prototype.
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Old 16th July 2018, 02:02 PM   #1860
heinz1964 is offline heinz1964  Denmark
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Default Import Tax

Hi

Well just to explain to somebody in the USA, there is a 4% point tax (means specific tax to specific product) to loudspeaker drivers in Denmark.

On top of those 4 % comes the VAT of 25 % in Denmark for items purchased outside of the EU. Technically I might be able to get the VAT from the american dealer refunded.

But the real cost here for me is shipping. So the cheap driver will probably double or triple its price before I have it in my hands.

best regards

Uwe
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