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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
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Old 13th February 2018, 06:17 PM   #1701
tubers is offline tubers
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Hey! Anyone out there interested in trying this out and want to buy a full set of crossover parts? I built the post #1602 version of this, and then took it apart to do something else. I have crossover parts that I don't need anymore.

They were really only used sparingly. All assembled and mounted to a board. retails comes to $90 in parts per set ($180 for a pair). Make me an offer! $90 for a pair + shipping? Weirdly, I have three sets of parts (long story), so one pair, plus a single set.

Send me a PM!

parts express part numbers as follows:
266-960 ERSE Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor Crossover Coil
255-434 Jantzen Audio 2.7mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor Crossover Coil
027-236 Dayton Audio PMPC-6.2 6.2uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitor
005-15 Mills 15 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
005-8 Mills 8 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
091-1154 Parts Express Dual-Ended Gold Binding Post Speaker Terminal Pair
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Old 14th February 2018, 03:13 PM   #1702
CGodecke is offline CGodecke  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fort Collins, CO
15" woofer clearance issue - as I put finishing touches on standmounters with GRS woofs (doesn't seem to have an actual name?) I was surprised how much relief was needed to clear the lateral back sides where they interfere with the 2x2 reinforcements. I chopped out a big chuck with an oscillating saw.

I cut the baffles at 15.5" wide, so with sidewings the front surface is 17". Rear clearance is as a result 15.5", but where the woofer basket installs, width is only 12.5 (subtract the actual 3" for 2 reinforcing 2x2s).

The fact that no one seems to have commented on this has me thinking the baffle should be 17" plus 1.5" for sidewings.

Received the long-backordered pair of woofers yesterday, and one was pretty bent-up. My conclusion is inadequate packing by PE - double-boxed but no cushioning. We'll see what they say after looking through several images of damage I sent.

Cam
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Old 14th February 2018, 05:37 PM   #1703
CGodecke is offline CGodecke  United States
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Kudos to PE customer service - they will send a replacement right away after seeing images showing the damaged woofer and packaging. Seems to me that UPS dropped the sideways-packed pair of drivers on its side, but there wasn't much protection in the double boxes.

One other question: how important is having a gasket or seal between the woofer and baffle? There's a serious gasket thoroughly glued to the front of the 15" woofer, not removable to use on the rear surface. I have used weatherstripping for this in the past for sealed or ported boxes.

Cam
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:55 PM   #1704
barryso is offline barryso  United States
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Default Updates to the updates

The rubber feet sounded good at first but I noticed there was something wrong after a few days of listening. The impact of the piano sounded dull and lifeless and after playing around a bit it turned out to be caused by the rubber footers. They cut the bass boom from the suspended wooden floors nicely but seemed to be rounding off the attack of the notes.

Put concrete pavers on the rubber feet and the Ultras right on top of the pavers. That's a pretty nice improvement. The bass is still full but isn't reacting with the wood floors the same way it did when they were simply on the floor. The bass is tighter, too, and no loss of impact or smearing of notes like on the rubber footers.

Then moved them back into the living room. Bigger room, better electronics and a power conditioner. You should hear these things now. Sweet sounding.

All of the recent changes have moved them from being somewhat murky sounding to being more clear and yet still laid back with a somewhat tube-like tone. To use an old film analogy they lean towards the warmth and reds of Kodachrome rather than the cool blues of Ektachrome.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:13 PM   #1705
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
Thanks for the photos, somehow I missed them when you originally posted. The pictures sure help! It's good to let the Vifa breath and have a smooth space to do it in.

Another way I had tried, tho I can't find any photos, was to put the Vifa on a thin baffle. By making a large baffle cut-out for the Vifa, say 5" diameter, then putting the thin baffle into that, you get open space at the rear of the driver. Basically the same as you did, but without routing the depth.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:16 PM   #1706
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Fast, fun, Inexpensive OB project
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Weirdly, I have three sets of parts (long story), so one pair, plus a single set.
Good for someone who wants to build a Left-Center-Right set of Manzanitas.
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Old 19th February 2018, 05:03 PM   #1707
Russell Dawkins is offline Russell Dawkins  Canada
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I see the GRS-15PF-8 has a foam surround. This gives me pause, unless there have been improvements in foam longevity. Does this driver sound as good as the Peerless SLS 830669 it replaces, apart from the extra bass exension of the 15?
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:25 PM   #1708
CGodecke is offline CGodecke  United States
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Location: Fort Collins, CO
Default My Build So Far

I have essentially completed what I hesitantly call a Manzanita Non-Ultra CV - GRS woofer on 17" baffle. I started playing it with the standard crossover values posted for both Peerless and GRS versions with HF attenuation 4.5Ohms, trap resistor 8.0Ohms, and have made some adjustments to those to get the Vifa a little less glaring and better integrated. I do wonder why the Ultra crossover uses significantly larger resistors for both positions. The much larger baffle increases the low end output, so I would expect the main pad would decrease and the HF trap remain much the same.

20180219_115357.jpg
And following up my post above is an image showing the half-inch chunk removed from the 2x2 support to clear the woofer basket. Not really an issue, but it suprised me since no one seemed to have mentioned this requirement.

Having fun playing around with optimizing these speakers. Right now they're on makeshift 16" stands. 22" stands are in process in my garage - 20 degrees today out there! I'll have more to say about the sound later on.

Cam
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:05 PM   #1709
gabkw is offline gabkw  United States
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Default Have you shipped them?

Hey tubers - have you shipped out my set yet? Haven't heard anything from you in the past several days. Let me know.

gabkw

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Hey! Anyone out there interested in trying this out and want to buy a full set of crossover parts? I built the post #1602 version of this, and then took it apart to do something else. I have crossover parts that I don't need anymore.

They were really only used sparingly. All assembled and mounted to a board. retails comes to $90 in parts per set ($180 for a pair). Make me an offer! $90 for a pair + shipping? Weirdly, I have three sets of parts (long story), so one pair, plus a single set.

Send me a PM!

parts express part numbers as follows:
266-960 ERSE Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor Crossover Coil
255-434 Jantzen Audio 2.7mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor Crossover Coil
027-236 Dayton Audio PMPC-6.2 6.2uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitor
005-15 Mills 15 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
005-8 Mills 8 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
091-1154 Parts Express Dual-Ended Gold Binding Post Speaker Terminal Pair
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Old 2nd March 2018, 03:31 AM   #1710
CGodecke is offline CGodecke  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Hey all -

Many resistor changes and a few capacitor tweaks have come and gone, and 22" poplar stands are in use. Burn-in is on-going, my own perception is no doubt altering, too. Speaker positioning in my small room is still progressing.

The Manzanitas are just flat starting to sing! I was begining to have some doubts, but resistor values began to gravitiate from the values in post #1601, same as for Peerless 12" design, to those shown in post #1602, for the Ultra with GRS 15". I don't want to waste energy figuring why this might be the case, I'm just really happy to have gotten to this configuration. Lots of varied and confusing information to sort through in these 1710 posts!

Current values are 8Ohm R1 (attenuation), 13.5Ohm trap (with 2.0mH coil), and 6.54uF cap. I'm ordering coils and caps for the woofer trap, to clean up a bit of glare in the roll-off zone..

Things that made a difference for me also are: silcone feet between stand and baffle, a little rearward tilt under the front or the stand's bases for a bit time-alignment and a higher full-ranger aim. The placement is far apart, almost 9' apart, 24" from sidewalls, 37" from back wall, listening position some 8'.

Sound has tightened, coherency improved, imaging and soundstage are just right - not too tall or wide, images not oversized. Very life-like with good recordings, and surprising new
differences between recordings. Big fun. Thanks to John and Pano, and many other contributors. I'm certainly not done with this journey yet, though!
- Cam

Apologies for what previews to be a sideways image.
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