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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 17th November 2009, 04:37 PM   #121
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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These don't change much in a big room. They seem to like a big room. You'll just need more power.

At the moment a number of us are working behind the scenes for a better tweeter integration. Please stay tuned.

I have thoughts on how these compare to the silver iris - but I don't want to be a bad boy!
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Old 18th November 2009, 01:18 AM   #122
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Interesting thread, if I was to use totally different drivers, would the same low -6db/oct filter on the woofer work as well as on the peerless woofer?

I've got a pair of Eminence 4012HO's which are known to work well with OB, but have yet to buy any tweeters, and am tempted to try this enclosure... I guess I'd have to change the XO, but I may just bi-amp and use a digital XO.
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Old 18th November 2009, 01:33 AM   #123
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The low freq. crossover does a few things here.
First it kills the big rising response that just about any mid to low Q woofer will have on open baffle.
Second it does roll off the top off the Peerless some, allowing the tweeter to match up.

The trouble with so much open baffle stuff is that the designers are afraid the throw away sensitivity to get a good tonal balance. But without doing that, the mids coming from your woofer are much too hot. Result? No bass.

So the big inductor kills the rise and gives proper tonal balance. But you do lose a LOT of efficiency - as much as 10dB. The Manzanita is not an efficient speaker. Maybe 82dB/Watt. We're down in Maganan territory. But it sounds terrific and does not lack a solid mid bass, as so many OB do.

A very low 1st order filter seems like a cheap trick, and it is. But ti works like a charm. Get the right driver and baffle and it may be all you need.
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Old 18th November 2009, 09:19 AM   #124
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Sweet! Thanks for the reply, I'll definitely stay tuned.
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Old 19th November 2009, 12:26 AM   #125
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Excellent stuff pano, I think I'm going to take the plunge and try and built this. I'm going to see what it's like with Eminence drivers, and use a digital XO, it's still cheap at I already have it. That peerless driver does seem like a nice driver tho, crazy to think a subwoofer driver can sound as good as you guys have reported above 100Hz.

I do think using a 3" cone instead of a tweeter is a nice idea also, as it allows you to have a lower XO point, and also you get waves from the back of the cone which is surely desirable in an OB setup?

I have yet to decide on a tweeter/cone, but I think Monacor make quite a nice 3" cone, which has a high amount of output and also hits 16Khz without problems. I'll see if I can find the model number...
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Old 19th November 2009, 02:44 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by ChestofFur View Post
These speakers look great and I'm considering building them but my living room is 3800cu ft. Is that too big for these? The living room is pretty much a box with 10 foot ceilings.

Any thoughts on these compared to the hawthorne audio silver iris speakers?
I have owned a set of SI's (they're now my son's), and have heard both this version of the Manzanita AND the updated version played at this year's NorCal DIY get together. No question, the Manzanita's are the better sounding speaker. The SI's aren't as smooth up top, as detailed in the mids, or as extended at the bottom. I'd regard a sub (or stereo subs as I set up for my son) as mandatory with SI's, at least in my room and for my liking. Not so with the M's, at least in the spaces where I heard them (well away from the back wall, something I can't achieve in my home).

OTOH, there's no playing the Manzanita's with a tiny tube amp, while the SI's will do fine on a few paltry watts, and given more power will play louder than I'd ever want. The SI's can be (and have been) used for light PA duty. I can't speak to the SPL limits of the Manzanita's. I heard them at 'normal' listening levels and they were fine.

If you've got the power, the Manzanita's are really very good.

Bill
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Old 19th November 2009, 10:31 AM   #127
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I'll wait a bit for some details on the updated version and then go for it. Thanks.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 07:16 PM   #128
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Default Mini-Manzanita

Hi All,

I worked a lot this week-end, I build a mini manzanita. This version is less tall (20" instead 27") because I want it at the good ear height on my stand. Now It looks like a big mini monitor. I add two options : 3 tweeters were tested and it is possible to choose your bass extension.

Vifa DX25 version
Click the image to open in full size.
Seas 27TDFC version
Click the image to open in full size.
Seas 27TBCG version
Click the image to open in full size.

The plan
Click the image to open in full size.

The crossovers
Click the image to open in full size.

The crossover frequency is near 1100Hz ~LR4. You can choose 3 values for the boomer inductor and you adjust the tweeter level. I use 10mH. You can adjust tweeter level with R2, depend on your taste, you amplifier, your room etc.

The tweeters option, you choose the tweeter you want, I don't have recommendations but I have a little preference for the 27TBCG version.

Measurement from the DX25 version.
Click the image to open in full size.

This is my modest contribution to this very nice project.
Thanks again John and Pano.

Have fun
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Old 22nd November 2009, 08:52 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by MikeHunt79 View Post
I do think using a 3" cone instead of a tweeter is a nice idea also, as it allows you to have a lower XO point, and also you get waves from the back of the cone which is surely desirable in an OB setup?

I have yet to decide on a tweeter/cone, but I think Monacor make quite a nice 3" cone, which has a high amount of output and also hits 16Khz without problems. I'll see if I can find the model number...
Visaton do a lot of pretty cheap 2 or 3" extended range drivers. My favourite for OB is the frs8. If you were to pay a little more, the M version has 6dB more sensitivity.

Chris

Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories

They also do a 4 ohm version, if that takes your fancy
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Old 23rd November 2009, 07:48 PM   #130
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Hey Jerome! Nice work on the new, smaller, lighter, cuter version.
And thanks for the good documentation of the tweeters and crossover possibilities.

Of course, I have some questions.

1: How do yo find the smaller baffle sounds? Is there much loss of bass or mid bass?
2: Has the baffle peak shifted enough to bother you, or did it not matter?
3: I see that you are using an LCR trap on the woofer. Have you found much benefit to this? For me, the Peerless woofer is so clean that I've never felt the need for a trap. What are your thoughts?

Most guys want to make this speaker bigger. larger baffle, 2 woofers, etc. You're the 1st to take it the other way. =) Nice thinking.
I wonder is deeper wings on this shorted baffle would be of benefit?
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