hi,
C37 was very expensive in Europe.
This pair was special version because was use C37 similar material Volin Vanish treatment already.
C37 violin Vanish, was famous in internet & most speaker user ( Most was full range user) was use this paint for its speaker driver cone. ( U can see lowther & AER in internet)
For OPT now I saw two brand in Interent was Audionote & Audio-consulting now is using in their products.
I was interested for this so I research for this data & found Newsday most ( over 95% low, Mid & mid-high level small violin, Cello was MADE IN CHINA. Most Famous factory in China such as Benjing to buy this vanish. The told me that this vanish was separated into Oil base, Oil + methyl Alcoholic base.
C37 similar volin vanish was made by extract of Shellac (Lakeh), Resin, frankincense, Commiphora Myrrha ,Myrrha, Olibanum Plant base) etc Natural extract, pre-heat to Estimate temperature to form UP! This Natural Extract will seperate alcoholic base or Oil base. Most Volin was use Oil base but need longer time to dry up. Alcoholic base will offer U easy to increase or decrease( use alcoholic to be a Solvent ) to remove excess paint. So I choose Alcoholic Base & half Oil + Alcoholic base back to test & coating into solid wood horn & compare the sound performace about them.( with or Without C37 similar violin vanish piant.)
Also this C37 for user that he can paint by themselves. ( standard was 5 layers).
Take a look for the C37 similar paint in solid fine ebony horn mouth.
Now is send to one of my friend test with TAD TD-4001.
If this C37 similar test will good performace. diyers will had cheap products to use, not need to suffer with expensive material.
thx
thomas
C37 was very expensive in Europe.
This pair was special version because was use C37 similar material Volin Vanish treatment already.
C37 violin Vanish, was famous in internet & most speaker user ( Most was full range user) was use this paint for its speaker driver cone. ( U can see lowther & AER in internet)
For OPT now I saw two brand in Interent was Audionote & Audio-consulting now is using in their products.
I was interested for this so I research for this data & found Newsday most ( over 95% low, Mid & mid-high level small violin, Cello was MADE IN CHINA. Most Famous factory in China such as Benjing to buy this vanish. The told me that this vanish was separated into Oil base, Oil + methyl Alcoholic base.
C37 similar volin vanish was made by extract of Shellac (Lakeh), Resin, frankincense, Commiphora Myrrha ,Myrrha, Olibanum Plant base) etc Natural extract, pre-heat to Estimate temperature to form UP! This Natural Extract will seperate alcoholic base or Oil base. Most Volin was use Oil base but need longer time to dry up. Alcoholic base will offer U easy to increase or decrease( use alcoholic to be a Solvent ) to remove excess paint. So I choose Alcoholic Base & half Oil + Alcoholic base back to test & coating into solid wood horn & compare the sound performace about them.( with or Without C37 similar violin vanish piant.)
Also this C37 for user that he can paint by themselves. ( standard was 5 layers).
Take a look for the C37 similar paint in solid fine ebony horn mouth.
Now is send to one of my friend test with TAD TD-4001.
If this C37 similar test will good performace. diyers will had cheap products to use, not need to suffer with expensive material.
thx
thomas
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
more,
every solid fine ebony horn mouth paint 5 layers of C37 similar Violin vanish. why I said similar C37 because probably my format of violin vanish was different as c37 although they all be same paint for wood of full range speaker.
thx
thomas
every solid fine ebony horn mouth paint 5 layers of C37 similar Violin vanish. why I said similar C37 because probably my format of violin vanish was different as c37 although they all be same paint for wood of full range speaker.
thx
thomas
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
FWIW, I analyzed some C37 and found it to be just a mix of two varnishes, presumably off-the-shelf. Nothing special about it at all, other than hype, promotion, and severe gullibility of its advocates. Any similar violin/luthier varnish will give pretty much identical results in your application.
SY said:
That analysis would have been the result of
this thread... I guess, though couldn't find the end result analysis bit.
Out of interest, were the contents natural (like shellac) or synthetic (cheapo polyurethene)?
Speaking to musicians about instruments, most do believe that different woods and finishes have a profound effect on how an instrument sounds, with PU-based varnish being seen a real nono. So I can understand too how this would theoretically apply to things like speaker drivers and cabinets. Whether the difference is audible in the hi-fi context, though, I don;t know -- and would not say so unless I did a true A/B blind test, which I cannot be bothered to do.
My gut feeling, however, would be to totally agree with you about the C37 hype and pricing... it's kinda like the whole cable thing, I guess.
The problem here is that the analogy is stretched beyond reason. A thin shellac layer will have a profound effect on a very thin plate of wood shaped and positioned to resonate. And between different sorts, there will be some subtle tonal differences.
Paint it on a big, thick wooden horn and the effect is minimal.
Paint it on a speaker cone and it will affect mass and breakup in exactly the same way as normal speaker dope. It will change the sound, and since the user just emptied his wallet to buy it, Of Course it will sound magically better than any ordinary finish.
My analysis wasn't detailed enough to totally deformulate (basically, we separated and counted components and got a qualitative idea of what they were by odor and microscopic examination), but it appears to be shellac-based, has a retarder (appears to be linseed oil), and pretty much the same thing as a few cans of guitar varnish that were laying around the shop.
Paint it on a big, thick wooden horn and the effect is minimal.
Paint it on a speaker cone and it will affect mass and breakup in exactly the same way as normal speaker dope. It will change the sound, and since the user just emptied his wallet to buy it, Of Course it will sound magically better than any ordinary finish.
My analysis wasn't detailed enough to totally deformulate (basically, we separated and counted components and got a qualitative idea of what they were by odor and microscopic examination), but it appears to be shellac-based, has a retarder (appears to be linseed oil), and pretty much the same thing as a few cans of guitar varnish that were laying around the shop.
hi SY,
many thaks for your opinions.
your message.
===========
FWIW, I analyzed some C37 and found it to be just a mix of two varnishes, presumably off-the-shelf. Nothing special about it at all, other than hype, promotion, and severe gullibility of its advocates.
Any similar violin/luthier varnish will give pretty much identical results in your application.
found it to be just a mix of two varnishes,
really, can I get more information? because most data I got it was mix by plant extract & shellac.
Yes, as U said most similar vanish will give pretty much identical results but there will had three base. If I choose the outer oil base will more concentrate, the outlook will more shine. But is this will good for horn mouth???? soryy I don't know. Alcoholic base in the inner of the volin, very thin, easy to romove.
can U advise more to me because I directly buy from Volion factory!
After they dry up, if use alcoholic base still can easy to remove if coating was too thick, if too thin can paint several layers more!
there had many hand made or factory made volin company in china nowsdays. This will very easy to search about conatin of them. But I trust there will be different for different brand. So I directly buy from large factory & try to coat into horn mouth!
thx
thomas
many thaks for your opinions.
your message.
===========
FWIW, I analyzed some C37 and found it to be just a mix of two varnishes, presumably off-the-shelf. Nothing special about it at all, other than hype, promotion, and severe gullibility of its advocates.
Any similar violin/luthier varnish will give pretty much identical results in your application.
found it to be just a mix of two varnishes,
really, can I get more information? because most data I got it was mix by plant extract & shellac.
Yes, as U said most similar vanish will give pretty much identical results but there will had three base. If I choose the outer oil base will more concentrate, the outlook will more shine. But is this will good for horn mouth???? soryy I don't know. Alcoholic base in the inner of the volin, very thin, easy to romove.
can U advise more to me because I directly buy from Volion factory!
After they dry up, if use alcoholic base still can easy to remove if coating was too thick, if too thin can paint several layers more!
there had many hand made or factory made volin company in china nowsdays. This will very easy to search about conatin of them. But I trust there will be different for different brand. So I directly buy from large factory & try to coat into horn mouth!
thx
thomas
hi ssmith,
your message.
=-=========
Speaking to musicians about instruments, most do believe that different woods and finishes have a profound effect on how an instrument sounds, with PU-based varnish being seen a real nono. So I can understand too how this would theoretically apply to things like speaker drivers and cabinets. Whether the difference is audible in the hi-fi context, though, I don;t know -- and would not say so unless I did a true A/B blind test, which I cannot be bothered to do.
My gut feeling, however, would be to totally agree with you about the C37 hype and pricing... it's kinda like the whole cable thing, I guess.
yes, I also use blind test too.
I am not sure that my blind test was right or not because I wa TAD TD-4001 user. I connect my horn to my fine ebony Horn mouth & use same crossover of TAD exclusive 2402 speaker. Directly compare to original 2402 TAD TH-4001 horn mouth.
testing was from C37 uncoating>>>>> C37 coating & compare
to TAD TH-4001.
is it reasonable!
thx
thomas
your message.
=-=========
Speaking to musicians about instruments, most do believe that different woods and finishes have a profound effect on how an instrument sounds, with PU-based varnish being seen a real nono. So I can understand too how this would theoretically apply to things like speaker drivers and cabinets. Whether the difference is audible in the hi-fi context, though, I don;t know -- and would not say so unless I did a true A/B blind test, which I cannot be bothered to do.
My gut feeling, however, would be to totally agree with you about the C37 hype and pricing... it's kinda like the whole cable thing, I guess.
yes, I also use blind test too.
I am not sure that my blind test was right or not because I wa TAD TD-4001 user. I connect my horn to my fine ebony Horn mouth & use same crossover of TAD exclusive 2402 speaker. Directly compare to original 2402 TAD TH-4001 horn mouth.
testing was from C37 uncoating>>>>> C37 coating & compare
to TAD TH-4001.
is it reasonable!
thx
thomas
hi Sy,
many thanks for your information. they write the contain material was in chinese. Let me try to search the name of them. I will post later. And mixing of them, I mean mixing different extract they sometimes put into water bath to control temperature & mix for them.
But I am not clear, so i directly bought fom them. They charge me not expensive. But post this alcoholic contain was flammeable. I cannot use pane post to me. If I test them really good. I will directly call factory coat for me.
I was testing for another experience.
I put original TAD TH-4001 horn Mouth ( maple Plywood) with 4001 driver one the top of the 2402 speaker & after that put the C37 similar coating horn mouth with 4001 driver on the top of 2402.
signal was directly from 2402 Crossover.
I had several air of 4001 horn driver so i can do this.
I will test them for one week with different type of music.
will post result later.
photo was my another original TH-4001 horn mouth + 4001 driver.
thx
thomas
many thanks for your information. they write the contain material was in chinese. Let me try to search the name of them. I will post later. And mixing of them, I mean mixing different extract they sometimes put into water bath to control temperature & mix for them.
But I am not clear, so i directly bought fom them. They charge me not expensive. But post this alcoholic contain was flammeable. I cannot use pane post to me. If I test them really good. I will directly call factory coat for me.
I was testing for another experience.
I put original TAD TH-4001 horn Mouth ( maple Plywood) with 4001 driver one the top of the 2402 speaker & after that put the C37 similar coating horn mouth with 4001 driver on the top of 2402.
signal was directly from 2402 Crossover.
I had several air of 4001 horn driver so i can do this.
I will test them for one week with different type of music.
will post result later.
photo was my another original TH-4001 horn mouth + 4001 driver.
thx
thomas
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
hi SY,
if solid fine ebony + thin C37 similar coating was this sharp with TAD 4001 horn driver. This two pair will compare soon.
Hope the C37 coating will be same level of sound quality as the original 4001 horn moth!
Sy, U can see the C37 thin coating made the surface of the solid horn mouth was smooth & pretty.
thx
thomas
if solid fine ebony + thin C37 similar coating was this sharp with TAD 4001 horn driver. This two pair will compare soon.
Hope the C37 coating will be same level of sound quality as the original 4001 horn moth!
Sy, U can see the C37 thin coating made the surface of the solid horn mouth was smooth & pretty.
thx
thomas
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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