Troublesome room reflection

[sangram]

Hi

Need some advice on a troubling reflection in my listening room.

This is a rented apartment so architectural modifications are not possible. I have attached a rough drawing of the room. It performs the function of entertaining guests and myself, and houses my 3 PCs and is also used for recording and performance.

The total dimensions are about 20x10x8 (LxWxH) feet, and the construction is brick, mortar, plaster and paint. There are two pillars of the main building that protrude into the room, and there is some plaster work on the wall done between them. The 'X' is where I sit, there are a couple of them and they all work well for listening.

I have attached the current placement of everything as it currently is, and I've been using it like this for the last two years, without worrying too much about it as I'm slightly deaf/tin-eared anyway.

Apparently not. I got myself one of the Chesky test discs, the one where David Chesky is banging on a Tom around a mic. And everything sounds just great, when he goes to the extreme right the sound seems to come from the right of the right speaker, absolutely wonderful. I never realised the speakers can image so well. When he moves to the left, the soundstage collapses and comes from the center, left of center actually. I figured it's that long left-hand side wall reflecting the left speaker's sounds back into the stage center.

I don't now think I was tin-eared, I need to solve this as it may be the cause of my 'tin' ears.

I've worried about this for some time, and I could use some suggestions on what to do. I thought about placing speakers along the long wall, the problem is those two pillars on one of the walls and a big hole on the other, so neither wall is suitable as far as I can tell, but I would love to hear if I'm wrong.

The other option is to move everything over to the other short wall, but there's a huge window behind the system then, and I won't be able to close it in a hurry for a thunderstorm, putting all the electronics in danger of getting wet. But I'll worry about that if I need to - if that is indeed a better place.

Last is treatment of that side wall. I have access to old bedsheets and maybe acoustic foam, and maybe buy a painting to put in front of it.

Also the floor is pure mosaic tiles, which I guess cause a lot of reflections. My speakers are about 43" tall, and I sit about 6' from them, so not sure if that is also a problem as the right speaker images fine.

Thanks for your help in advance.

[OzMikeH]

Try swapping the speakers around, It is quick and easy to do even if an equipment fault is unlikely. Leave all cables connected where they were.

Get an assistant to slide a hand mirror along the wall while you sit in the spot, when you can see the left speaker mark the wall, get them to move the mirrror closer to you until you can see the right speaker, mark the wall there too. Stick a wad of polyester from a cushion over the spots with some masking tape. If it works put some hooks above the marks and hang a couple of coats there. Easily "tuned" and it wouldn't look as odd as a painting three feet off the floor.

[sangram]

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't want to move those monsters twice - they're 80 pounds each and I have a bad back.

I can pretty much see the reflection every single place I sit, so maybe it's one large wall hanging with some foam behind it, unless you think the wall with the window could work.

Thanks

[Cal Weldon]

Mike has some sound (hehe) ideas but I'm wondering...

Have you turned around and listened with the speakers behind you to ensure it's not a concern with your ears? The imaging will of course be much different but it will help to eliminate another possible source of concern before you alter the room.

Also, do you do your testing with your eyes closed? I think that's important.

[sangram]

That's a very good point, Cal - I love the way you insinuate I'm deaf

But seriously, you're right - kind of. I do have a hearing defect in my right ear which I did talk about on this board, but on my tiny little desktop monitors, both my ears seem to be hearing almost the same thing.

These don't image half as well as the main speakers (the image never stretches beyond the speakers, for example) but I do all my tracking and mixing on them. There is a 1.5-2.5 dB drop between my right and left hear in frequency response at the top end (this was 6 dB at the time of my accident), but far as I can tell I can locate the sources pretty well. And the ears are getting better, slowly but surely.

I do all my serious testing with my eyes closed, trying to visualise (I do the same when performing so I kind of know it's important) the space and moment of the recording.

I will try out both the suggestions tomorrow, thanks for putting them up. First turning around, then interchanging the left and right speakers.

[mazdapowered]

I’ve got a similar problem in my room and I’m convinced it’s because the speakers are not in a symmetrical position in the room. I have experimented with blankets etc. on the side walls and it did help a lot but as there are doors in the main problem area I can’t decide how best to treat them for now.

So, as a short term solution (after many hours of speaker moving) I have toed the speakers right in (45 deg.), so that actually ‘cross’ just in front of the listening area, in an aim to get more direct sound and less reflections from the side walls. It has closed the soundstage up a little but the imaging is much improved, with much less bias towards one side.

[happy.gringo]

Speaking of doors, there was something in one of the threads about the vast difference in sound in a room with closed windows and open ones. I wonder if the room could be thought of as an aperiodic enclosure and tuned by a door with varying size holes with some type of wool or pillow stuffing? Room tuning doors.

[sangram]

Originally posted by mazdapowered

So, as a short term solution (after many hours of speaker moving) I have toed the speakers right in (45 deg.), so that actually ‘cross’ just in front of the listening area, in an aim to get more direct sound and less reflections from the side walls. It has closed the soundstage up a little but the imaging is much improved, with much less bias towards one side.

That did it, but you're right, it's a temporary solution at best. The image has collapsed quite a bit, now the 'extreme' right and left are right at the speaker and not outside the width. Will do for now, until I try and get some more absorption going on that wall.

Good news is my ears are more or less equal, maybe 1db off, nothing to worry about. The weird thing is that my right ear (the one affected in the accident) is actually a bit better at the absolute high end than my left - even though it's the one that still has that little bit of tinnitus.

[Cal Weldon]

Originally posted by happy.gringo
<snip> the vast difference in sound in a room with closed windows and open ones. <snip>

And outside, I have great difficulty hearing music while mowing the lawn if the windows are closed.

[TerryO]

Originally posted by Cal Weldon


And outside, I have great difficulty hearing music while mowing the lawn if the windows are closed.

It's rather odd, but I have trouble hearing you mow the lawn even with the music turned off AND the windows wide open.
It's probably something to do with my hearing.


Best Regards,
TerryO

BTW Cal: How many feet of snow do you have up there?