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Old 10th October 2007, 12:41 AM   #11
GM is online now GM  United States
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Greets!

80 ohms?! Surely you mean 8 ohms, right?

WRT pricing, I don't have a clue what any drivers cost in Germany, only here in the USA, so you'll have to give me some makes/models that stay within budget. Anyway, with only 150 L available the options are very limited if driven with a ~matching impedance amp as the F1 appears to be since the specs will need to be suitable for mid-bass horn loading, which also means little Xmax in many of them. Also, if indeed the amp's output impedance is 8 ohms, then getting 'fast' bass will be hard to come by without going ~aperiodic. For instance, assuming the B&C 15NDL76 is within budget (all dims i.d.):

~37 Hz Fb:

H = 30"
W = 18.81"
D = 16.25"
zdriver = 14.5"
zport = 6" dia x 5" long down near/at the bottom

Sim with 8 ohms series resistance. Stuffing the vent will flatten the response and lower Fb if it's not 'fast'/'clean' sounding enough:

GM
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Old 10th October 2007, 02:11 AM   #12
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by DUC985
Price range would be up to 200-300 bucks per woofer max
At that price why not get a pair of 414s? They don't go for the crazy prices some of the 15" Altec drivers do. Even a beat pair could be reconed.

Then you would know what box size to use!
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Old 10th October 2007, 02:23 AM   #13
GM is online now GM  United States
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Greets!

I wondered about that, but with 8 ohms series R, FWIW I'd rather have the B&C in the little cab than the 414 in the Onken:

GM
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File Type: gif altec 414-8c in petite onken with 8 ohms series r.gif (6.8 KB, 525 views)
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Old 10th October 2007, 01:34 PM   #14
DUC985 is offline DUC985  Germany
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GM,

the F1 has 80 Ohms because it is a current output amp! I could also use a gainclone LM3875 this one has less than 0.1 Ohms.
I do not think that you can simulate a current source amp with any speaker design software.

It seems that we are moving now more into the direction of a MLTL, which is fine, as i do not think that i will find 414 in the next month and finding a replacement driver is kind of a risk cause it is difficult to predict if it will really work.

So the question is now, which driver to use which fits well into the <150 limit. I'm not the expert in speakers and can only rely on you guys experience or other sources.
The B&C you suggested fits perfectly into the budget. B&C has quite a good reputation and i have a B&C DE25 tweeter which sounds very nice. So we keep it on the list of potentional cannidates.

However looking at the specs, i'm thinking if this speaker is not a little bit over the top. Question would be, if a 12 inch driver would be enough in this kind of setup ?

How would the 12 inch Drivers sim ?

Beyma 12B100
FS = 29 Hz
RE = 6.6
Qms = 6.49
Qes = 0.31
QTs = 0.3
VAS = 154L
Xmax = 3mm
Moving mass = 77g
94db

Beyma 12LW30
Fs = 39Hz
Re = 6.1
Qms = 6.6
Qes = 0.3
QTs = 0.29
Vas = 109L
Xmax = 5mm
96db

Kappa Pro 12
Fs = 37Hz
Re = 5.46
Qms = 6.93
Qes = 0.25
Qts = 0.24
Vas = 121L
Xmax = 4.8mm
97db


If you have other suggestions let me know ...

thx

Mathias
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Old 10th October 2007, 05:44 PM   #15
GM is online now GM  United States
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If what you say is true, which I admit I'm highly skeptical that it can't be approximated the same way as done for tube amps, then you'll have to get help from Nelson or someone else more familiar with designing speakers for this type amp as I don't have time right now to do any research.

GM
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Old 11th October 2007, 06:44 AM   #16
jamikl is offline jamikl  Australia
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Hi DUC 985. There are plans for a mini onken on the web using a 10" focal driver. Dimensions are roughly 70cm X 47cm X 40cm. I doubt that these would have the punch of the altecs but is this the sort of thing you are looking for? http//ndaviden.club.fr
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Old 11th October 2007, 10:45 AM   #17
DUC985 is offline DUC985  Germany
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thank you for you suggestens. Suddenly the world has changed, as somebody was so kind to offer Altecs to me in perfect condition.
I will go now for the small Onken with the real Speakers ...

thx
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Old 12th October 2007, 12:28 PM   #18
DUC985 is offline DUC985  Germany
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this might be interesting for other who want to try also Onkens .

This is translated from French to English using google. Sometimes a little bit funny.
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Old 12th October 2007, 01:05 PM   #19
DUC985 is offline DUC985  Germany
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here it is ...
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File Type: zip reflexions on the realization onken2.zip (96.9 KB, 206 views)
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