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Old 3rd October 2007, 08:17 PM   #1
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Default L18rnx/p or Al170 in 2-way

Hello

I want some help to choose mid-woofer. By now I decided to make Zaph's All Metal System. I'm not really sure to use 27tbfc/g, so I searched... and I found.

Visaton Ke25sc

There is one problem - I can't found any project with L18 and ke25..
But tere is a lot with al170, but L18 and ke25 are drivers " in my type" My conception changed many times, but I hope I'll finish my project soon.

So I ask you about question in topic or/and ewentual l18-ke25 XO.

Thanks forward ... and sorry about my english
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Old 3rd October 2007, 11:07 PM   #2
owdi is offline owdi  United States
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What don't you like about the 27TBFC/G? I just built this project yesterday, and if anything, the L18 is much harder to work with. The notch filter has to be just right.

I recommend you start by building the project as it is designed, and only change things after a week or two of listening.

Dan
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Old 4th October 2007, 01:56 AM   #3
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Agreed with owdi.

John (Zaph) Krutke as well as others vouch for the 27TBFC/G performance. These people have many years experience to be able to judge good from bad drivers. I've never seen bad words written about John's L18 / 27TBFC/G design. I also doubt he would publish a design he didn't think offered the price performance he expects.

I have a pair of 27TBFC/G myself and its definitely the woofers in my system that let the tweeters down. For the price, they offer low distortion across the spectrum and can handle a low xo point (ie. 1700Hz with 4th order acoustic slopes - or slightly lower).

If you can't measure your own design or don't have reliable driver measurements from others to model your own design, it will cost you a lot of frustration and money and you may never get the system sounding right.

David.
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Old 4th October 2007, 03:35 AM   #4
owdi is offline owdi  United States
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I think it can go lower than 1700hz. Mark K got 96db out of the 27TBFC/G at 1000hz, with reasonable levels of HD. I think an LR4 1khz xover point is doable so long as you have a narrow baffle*, and don't take it over 100db.

*Narrow baffle required to get an extra 1-2db efficiency around 1khz.

Dan
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Old 4th October 2007, 03:58 AM   #5
Jay_WJ is offline Jay_WJ  United States
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I'd wait for Zaph's new ER18RNX project. The L18 is not easy to work with. Zaph also admitted that if he were to redesign the L18 2-way, he would use a lower xo point.

I expect his ER18 design will be up on his site pretty soon.
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Old 4th October 2007, 06:22 PM   #6
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Thank you man. As you know making decision about audio system is very hard Especially when prices in Poland are highier than in the rest of the world.. 27tbfc/g in Zaph's tweeter mishmash costs 30$ in Poland 62$... Average salary is 850$ - there is nothing to say...

It is better to discuss some problems to avoid them in future.
One more question: is there anybody who can compare Zaph's system with al170+ke25sc?? They are both top Visaton drivers - it could be nice to have them at home

Who asks won't be lost!
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Old 4th October 2007, 09:00 PM   #7
owdi is offline owdi  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mor den Siur
Especially when prices in Poland are highier than in the rest of the world.. 27tbfc/g in Zaph's tweeter mishmash costs 30$ in Poland 62$...
Whenever I travel there, I am sure not to buy any consumer electronics. They are way more expensive than here.

If you were to buy all the parts for the project over there, including the crossovers, what would it cost you?

Dan
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Old 5th October 2007, 07:56 AM   #8
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http://www.audiosklep.com.pl/

Here are the cheapest prices I've found. 1PLN=2,7USD
Totally cost of Zaph's system with minimalist XO ( Jantzen parts) is more than 1100PLN=410$ ... at least. Materials not included. Dispath also.

Seas drivers are skandynavian products. Distance to USA is 4-5 bigger than to Poland. Prices in Poland are 2x higher. Where is economy??

I'm still waiting for comparison Seas and Visaton. I will be gratefull
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Old 5th October 2007, 12:02 PM   #9
Jay_WJ is offline Jay_WJ  United States
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I don't think there's anyone who built both Seas and Visaton 2-ways. So it's your decision. If you don't have equipments and skills to design speakers from scratch, build Zaph's L18 design.
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Old 5th October 2007, 03:59 PM   #10
owdi is offline owdi  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mor den Siur
http://www.audiosklep.com.pl/

Here are the cheapest prices I've found. 1PLN=2,7USD
Totally cost of Zaph's system with minimalist XO ( Jantzen parts) is more than 1100PLN=410$ ... at least. Materials not included. Dispath also.

Seas drivers are skandynavian products. Distance to USA is 4-5 bigger than to Poland. Prices in Poland are 2x higher. Where is economy??

I'm still waiting for comparison Seas and Visaton. I will be gratefull
The prices for crossover parts are comparable, but prices on Seas drivers are much higher than here. I think a big part of the economics is scale. I'll go out on a limb and say Madisound moves 100 times as much product as AudioSklep, which allows them to have much lower prices.

Dan
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