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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 2nd October 2007, 05:38 AM   #31
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
OK guys, chew on this:

dave

Quote from Allen Wright's "The SuperCables CookBook" (recommended http://www.vacuumstate.com/)

The beating products fall into the normal range as the quoted text indicates. Its well understood that supersonic beatings can create sonic products. But this has to do with producing sound, not reproducing sound. In the text example, if the reproduction chain can replay the recorded normal sonic range including the beating products that fall in it, why would it have to extend where they have been originally born?
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Old 2nd October 2007, 06:06 AM   #32
Svante is offline Svante  Sweden
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My view on this is this:

We typically cannot hear frequencies above 20 kHz, most people don't hear anything above 16-18 kHz.

Most people listen to CDs, which should not produce anything above 22050 Hz. If they do, they are faulty.

However, if a loudspeaker is made to reproduce up to 40 kHz, there is at least a slight chance that the response in the 10-20 kHz region is more well behaved.

On the other hand, there is also a risk that quality in the audible band will have to be sacrificed in order to reach the 20k+ frequencies.

IMO things like these takes the focus away from what is really important; the audible range. Frequency response cannot be simplified to an upper and a lower limit, there is a whole curve from 20 to 20000 Hz that should be sort of flat. Actually there is a whole bunch of such curves in different directions. Finding the right balance in these in the audible range is a far more challenging task than extending the range above the audible frequencies.
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Old 2nd October 2007, 08:17 PM   #33
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Interesting thoughts all. FWIW, I seem to remember a study done a few years back showing harmonics of a trumpet went up past 100KHz. Now all we need is a format that can actually do it, if we go along with the thought that if you chop off something, the consequencies will always be felt further down the chain. You lop off the last foot of a python, methinks the rest might have a reaction. Does it apply to audio? I've no idea. Most supertweeters are resonating / breaking up something chronic above about 25KHz anyway, rather than behaving in a pistonic fashion. But I suspect if it's implemented well, it will have an effect on the audible band. The frequent reaction to adding a supertweeter to a system is not that the HF has become more extended, but the midband & even the upper bass has cleaned up.

Speaking generally, I have a suspicion a little too much attention is given to upward extension though sometimes, when the main audio-band hasn't been properly sorted. Look at all those dodgy commercial speakers with supertweeters, and a deeply mediocre / dodgy response in the telephone-band, worse still, they've usually got an XO slap-bang in the middle of that region too. Sigh. Bit like a medieval eunuch in a brothel, there is little point to the exercise.
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Old 2nd October 2007, 08:26 PM   #34
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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very little point, indeed (has my wife been talking to you?)
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Old 2nd October 2007, 09:43 PM   #35
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scottmoose
Interesting thoughts all. FWIW, I seem to remember a study done a few years back showing harmonics of a trumpet went up past 100KHz. Now all we need is a format that can actually do it, if we go along with the thought that if you chop off something, the consequencies will always be felt further down the chain. You lop off the last foot of a python, methinks the rest might have a reaction. Does it apply to audio? I've no idea. Most supertweeters are resonating / breaking up something chronic above about 25KHz anyway, rather than behaving in a pistonic fashion. But I suspect if it's implemented well, it will have an effect on the audible band. The frequent reaction to adding a supertweeter to a system is not that the HF has become more extended, but the midband & even the upper bass has cleaned up.

Speaking generally, I have a suspicion a little too much attention is given to upward extension though sometimes, when the main audio-band hasn't been properly sorted. Look at all those dodgy commercial speakers with supertweeters, and a deeply mediocre / dodgy response in the telephone-band, worse still, they've usually got an XO slap-bang in the middle of that region too. Sigh. Bit like a medieval eunuch in a brothel, there is little point to the exercise.

Adding a very fast small transducer to a system, alters two main things. 1. The rise time of its impulse response. 2. Its last octave beaming. It makes a system rising faster and beaming wider. This has enough impact so to alter system's impression on listeners. I doubt its just a matter of sheer HF extension if at all.
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