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Old 30th September 2007, 09:26 PM   #21
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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Or just become an audio engineer !!
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Old 30th September 2007, 10:14 PM   #22
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default ultra sonic...

there is some merit to ultra wide bandwidth for human hearing. we cannot actively hear to that frequency of course, but there are "impressions" left that can somehow seem more natural than filtered output or playback.

put yourself in a room with a supertweeter at 50k for any period of time (or a long period of time). An impression will be left.

don't underestimate the ability of the human mind to somehow process the information. We just might not have the language, or jargon or highly specialized field of study to explain it, 'cause humans only "hear" to 20k

I'd love to set up a study of a live performance with overtones that could be predicted and compare to a sound that was filterred. hmmm, psychoacoustics?

anyone have an idea of the highest fequency overtones possible with acoustic instruments?
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Old 30th September 2007, 10:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by pedroskova
Even a budget moving coil cartridge will trace beyond 25k, and the mastering cutter heads are good to 50k. Moving magnet cartridges have problems above 20k because of inductance, but the better ones, with lower output, go to 30k or more.
Pity the LPs aren't. About the only ones that did were CD4.

Budget moving coils with good tracing at 25KHz? Which?
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Old 1st October 2007, 12:18 AM   #24
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Dear All,

I use fostex and TAD tweeters which go to 40khz and 100khz respectively.

Many ribbons go to 30-40khz and the Eton tweeters i use go to 40khz.

The old KEF T27 did 40khz i believe and also the COLES 4001 did 30khz.

So there is no shortage of drive units doing in excess of 20khz.

Can you here a difference?

I believe so.

Also as an aside the QUAD 57's struggled past 16khz but everybody loves their top end.

It isnat always what you do but how you do it.

Oh yeah cheap and cheerful Piezzo's manage in excess of 30khz. So for a few dollars you could add a pair of piezzo's and suck it and see.

regards David.
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Old 1st October 2007, 01:50 AM   #25
dnsey is offline dnsey  United Kingdom
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Quote:
anyone have an idea of the highest fequency overtones possible with acoustic instruments?
Surely, as with any complex waveform, they are theoretically infinite (but the level usually diminishes as a function of the order).
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Old 1st October 2007, 01:59 AM   #26
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Can someone please tell me what we are listening to above 15K?
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Old 1st October 2007, 01:34 PM   #27
OzMikeH is offline OzMikeH  Australia
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In my very limited experience: Mostly evident with vocals: T and S sounds. Breathing or breathy vocals. whispers.

Obviously cymbals and just about any metal percussion/bells/chimes. Acoustic guitar, the first bit of the Twang as the finger leaves the string. The airflow noises from flute and woodwinds.

Essentially the last 2% of signal content that takes you over the goosebumps threshold. The difference between a good sounding recording and a realistic one.

When I disconnect my supertweeters it's like listening to music with a severe head cold or un-popped ears. My main drivers drop 10dB between 14 and 15kHz. Some people can't tell the difference if they're connected or not.
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Old 1st October 2007, 07:10 PM   #28
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I have at some point managed to make my speakers so dry and "short" sounding by means of the xo, that the result was that the musicians sounded like they played a bit false

Some times when I play violin in my listening room, sound is so "short" and soft that its hard to make it sound good ... but when I play in my kitchen where there is a bit echo due to hard sufaces the violin sound much better and in tune
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Old 2nd October 2007, 12:42 AM   #29
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OK guys, chew on this:

dave

Quote from Allen Wright's "The SuperCables CookBook" (recommended http://www.vacuumstate.com/)

Quote:
OK, OK you say, great story but I'm not a baboon -- I can't even hear 18 kHz anymore so what's the problem? What's phaseshift at 80khz got to do with me?

Well, he went on to tell about an experience he had in hearing a bass clarinet player hit a single note while he was setting up microphones for a recording session and haering each finger hole down the clarinet 'Light up' as the initial air pressure wave ran down the inside of the body of the instrument. He was just in the right place at the right time to hear this effect and was so stunned by it that he had the guy hit it again and recorded it -- and when analysed on a fast storage oscilloscope he found that this supposedly bass instrument was making measurable and repeatable harmonics at 18khz and 24kHz, and that the initial transient was at 48kHz.

Now unlike the big monk you may not be able to hear 48kHz but i trust you can hear 6kHz, and that's what's in the air when those 18 and 24kHz harmonics beat together. And if the 48 and 24kHz harmonics are not exact octaves of each other due to normal constructional variations in the instrument, you will hear (or at least sense) the differences between them -- which might be back down in the bass region again.
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Old 2nd October 2007, 05:28 AM   #30
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by DonoMan



Your hearing must suck. I can hear above 22kHz, though not as well as I can at, well, lower than 22kHz. In one of my electronics classes a few years back, we hooked a signal generator up to a small speaker and just went from like 10kHz up. Most people could hear to 18-20kHz; I went up to about 23kHz without having to turn up the amplitude (again, at a reduced volume though).

However, either way, I don't think it's an important range.

I used to conduct such experiments in a psychoacoustic seminar. -Special CDs and tested headphones.- Ages from 20 to 50yrs. ALL had to double the volume to faintly listen to the 18kHz and 20kHz tones, when the 15kHz tone was discernible using the same volume as with the sub 10kHz tones. Did you go up to 23kHz using the same volume you had for 15kHz? This is extraordinary.
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