260-140 Dayton XO2W-2K 2-Way Crossover 2,000 Hz
297-406 HiVi RT2C-A Planar Isodynamic Tweeter
295-362 Dayton RS150S-8 6" Reference Shielded Woofer (x2)
260-265 L-Pad 100W Mono 1" Shaft 8 Ohm
well the project began as a db616tl and i wanted to put some better drivers in because i got a bigger than expected paycheck from my summer job (W00t). after pricing out a crossover from the db717tl, I decided to get the pre-built one because it was cheaper and easier this being my first project. so all the stuff up there is from parts express and any knowledge you guys can provide is greatly appreciated. (FYI these are being powered by a pioneer 1016tx-v HT amplifier (110Wx7ch., fronts are bi-ampable) and will be the front speakers in a home theater system i am building as i get more money.)
297-406 HiVi RT2C-A Planar Isodynamic Tweeter
295-362 Dayton RS150S-8 6" Reference Shielded Woofer (x2)
260-265 L-Pad 100W Mono 1" Shaft 8 Ohm
well the project began as a db616tl and i wanted to put some better drivers in because i got a bigger than expected paycheck from my summer job (W00t). after pricing out a crossover from the db717tl, I decided to get the pre-built one because it was cheaper and easier this being my first project. so all the stuff up there is from parts express and any knowledge you guys can provide is greatly appreciated. (FYI these are being powered by a pioneer 1016tx-v HT amplifier (110Wx7ch., fronts are bi-ampable) and will be the front speakers in a home theater system i am building as i get more money.)
The crossover is the most important -- and hardest part to do -- of any multiway speaker. If the XO isn't specifically for the drivers you are using then it is very likely not to turn out well.
A multi-way with a well executed XO will tromp all over a sytem with better drivers but a weak XO.
Myself i think XOs are eveil and tend towards 1-way speakers.
dave
A multi-way with a well executed XO will tromp all over a sytem with better drivers but a weak XO.
Myself i think XOs are eveil and tend towards 1-way speakers.
dave
Hi,
The short answer is it is a disaster waiting to happen.
build something like the floor stander of this :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html
Or more upmarket a floor stander version of :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker16.html
or more compact a floorstanding version of :
http://www.eldamar.net/audio/RS150MTM/
/sreten.
The short answer is it is a disaster waiting to happen.
build something like the floor stander of this :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html
Or more upmarket a floor stander version of :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker16.html
or more compact a floorstanding version of :
http://www.eldamar.net/audio/RS150MTM/
/sreten.
A "stock" crossover will not address response break-up peaks inherent with just about any metal woofer, resulting in a harsh, sharp sound that can quickly result in listening fatigue. These peaks are prominent in the Dayton RS line, which are fine woofers for the money by the way. The crossover will need at minimum one notch filter, a steeper slope, and a lower crossover point.
1st Design!
Ok , I looked up the specs on your desired drivers & yes you will need the attentuation for the tweeter as it is rather sensitive & needs the L-pad.
Do we have any response graphs available out there to nail down these anomalies in the woofer?
Perhaps you could run the Xover outboard of the enclosure so that we could tweak/modify to make up for the non-linearities.
The dirty way to do it of course is to get a twelve band EQ to tweak the response.........Oh yeah..thats' how they do it in the studio!....Plus with said EQ you could dial in the response for room acoustics also.
_____________________________________Rick.........
Ok , I looked up the specs on your desired drivers & yes you will need the attentuation for the tweeter as it is rather sensitive & needs the L-pad.
Do we have any response graphs available out there to nail down these anomalies in the woofer?
Perhaps you could run the Xover outboard of the enclosure so that we could tweak/modify to make up for the non-linearities.
The dirty way to do it of course is to get a twelve band EQ to tweak the response.........Oh yeah..thats' how they do it in the studio!....Plus with said EQ you could dial in the response for room acoustics also.
_____________________________________Rick.........
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and heres the one for the tweeter- but im second guessing the planar isodynamic choice, ive read reviews touting their unmatched clarity but have also hear of poor off-axis response. i think the largest off axis angle in my listening room is 40 degrees, but i really care about the accuracy in the 30 degree range. worst comes to worst, i can always toe the speakers in towards me but then i don't want my friends to think i built poor speakers! Also, i love good soundstaging and detailed sound. Im just wondering if a good dome tweeter would serve me better (around 50-60 dollars)
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Hmmm.........
what is wrong with the design here that has done all the
hard work for you (and not got it wrong in the process) ?
http://www.eldamar.net/audio/RS150MTM/
And yes you would be better off with a good dome tweeter.
The Seas 27TBFCG is a good choice, the above can use it.
/sreten.
what is wrong with the design here that has done all the
hard work for you (and not got it wrong in the process) ?
http://www.eldamar.net/audio/RS150MTM/
And yes you would be better off with a good dome tweeter.
The Seas 27TBFCG is a good choice, the above can use it.
/sreten.
sreten said:Hmmm.........
what is wrong with the design here that has done all the
hard work for you (and not got it wrong in the process) ?
http://www.eldamar.net/audio/RS150MTM/
And yes you would be better off with a good dome tweeter.
The Seas 27TBFCG is a good choice, the above can use it.
I agree 100% - I use the TBFC/G and can vouch for it, as can Zaph and many others. It also comes in well below your price range. Better off-axis response and better tweeter period. I wouldn't buy into the "unmatched clarity" claims of planars, ribbons, etc. - these are subjective analyses and well designed domes prove to have lower distortion, which equals superior sound.
markr89 - Your request for a check has resulted in a unanimous DONT DO IT. You are far better off picking a proven design, then building the crossover. Don't be afraid of the crossover, they are not difficult to assemble. You don't even need to know how to use a soldering iron, as crimping everything together works just fine.
IMO, the RS180 is a great choice, but it is not a good match for that ribbon. That ribbon needs to be crossed over high, which the RS180 does not like. Why don't you try a project with a simpler crossover?
The Zaph Audio BAMTM would be a fantastic choice, and fits within your budget. The crossover is super simple, only 5 components per side.
Just to wet your appetite, these are my top 3 favorite sites with well documented projects
http://www.zaphaudio.com
http://www.rjbaudio.com
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/
Dan
IMO, the RS180 is a great choice, but it is not a good match for that ribbon. That ribbon needs to be crossed over high, which the RS180 does not like. Why don't you try a project with a simpler crossover?
The Zaph Audio BAMTM would be a fantastic choice, and fits within your budget. The crossover is super simple, only 5 components per side.
Just to wet your appetite, these are my top 3 favorite sites with well documented projects
http://www.zaphaudio.com
http://www.rjbaudio.com
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/
Dan
Stock crossover + your own selected drivers = A horrible sounding speaker.
Really - it's like buying a car that runs on gas (petrol), then buying a barrel of diesel then expecting the car to run.
Worst case - your combination could blow up your amplifier (if the crossover and drivers all combined present a very low load).
All the links below have designs from proven designers. Build one of them.
Cheers,
David.
Really - it's like buying a car that runs on gas (petrol), then buying a barrel of diesel then expecting the car to run.
Worst case - your combination could blow up your amplifier (if the crossover and drivers all combined present a very low load).
All the links below have designs from proven designers. Build one of them.
Cheers,
David.
hell, am i glad i checked with you guys first; putting $300 (on a student's budget) into speakers and realizing they have all the acoustical grandeur of a 'my chemical romance' song remixed by yung joc played through a pair of busted ipod headphones would have been enough for me to do something crazy like buy a pair of bose speakers and encode all my audio into 54kbps mp3's (gasp). but all in all it seems as if the Seas 27TBFCG design from www.eldamar.net/audio/RS150MTM/ have the experts' blessing. The last question is would i encounter any problems with this setup running in the db616tl (a transmission line) enclosure? i attached pictures so you know where I'm coming from if you're unfamiliar.
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planet10 said:
Hi,
I agree, and the db616TL uses 6.5 woofers not 5" woofers.
TBH the RS150S is a good driver but not a bass monster.
The floorstanding version of the BAMTM is a better choice for bass.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html
/sreten.
Re: 1st Design!
12 band EQ used in WHAT studio? Remind me NEVER to use their recordings. 12 band lacks sufficient resolution to accomplish any but the most basic of EQ tasks, and certainly won't do you any good controlling this breakup, as you'll attenuate the tweeter output so low that all you'll hear at that frequency is the sound of the breakup, with big dips to either side in the 1M response curve.
Nothing personal, but that's a terrible idea.
Richard Ellis said:
12 band EQ used in WHAT studio? Remind me NEVER to use their recordings. 12 band lacks sufficient resolution to accomplish any but the most basic of EQ tasks, and certainly won't do you any good controlling this breakup, as you'll attenuate the tweeter output so low that all you'll hear at that frequency is the sound of the breakup, with big dips to either side in the 1M response curve.
Nothing personal, but that's a terrible idea.
sreten said:
I agree, and the db616TL uses 6.5 woofers not 5" woofers.
TBH the RS150S is a good driver but not a bass monster.
1) i was just looking to get better sound out of the db616tl enclosures that are already half-built (i haven't yet cut out the holes for the drivers) because i had some extra money
2) the rs 150 MTM uses the 6" woofer, the rs150s.
• RS125S-8 5"
• RS150S-8 6"
• RS180S-8 7"
3) I'm not looking for monster bass, just a well controlled low end, i plan to use these as mains in a ht system ill be building as i get more money. I am also adding a sub very soon, so most of my real low end bass will come from there.
markr89 said:
http://users.d-web.com/dbrown/db717tl/db717tl.htm
The RS180s models well in those cabinets, the RS150S might be OK.
perhaps MJK worksheet boffins would like to comment ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Unfortunately the RS180S crossover designs seeem to like overdoing it.
RS150S :
RS180S :
/sreten.- Status
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