The veneering of my last project (Clarro) is very well done but if you look very close and carefully at the edge, you can notice the small line where the veneer stop. If you compare this with a commercial box, this is not as good. My question is how do they finish the edge to look like solid wood? I know in some case they use solid wood for edges but I know they can do a perfect job only with veneer. Even if you look very close, you still think it solid wood.
I did it flush and sanded the corner at 45 degree a bit. Before the stain, the egde was almost invisible. Since the grain of the veneer is different of the grain on "the cut side" the paint is not absorbed in the same way and then you see something. There must be a trick!! This is now my goal [in life] to understand this unless I will never be happy. I know, I am perfectionist.
Ilianh, they use the same standard veneer, 45 degrees cut is possible but very hard to fit.
Ilianh, they use the same standard veneer, 45 degrees cut is possible but very hard to fit.
A lot of commercial speakers are made with pre-finished panel goods and are cut with a special machine so the panels can be "folded" into a box. Basically a miter joint, but not usually cut thru. The "V" groove is done from the back side of the panel. Some of what most people think is real veneer is, in actuality, a man-made material (vinyl etc.).
Other than that, 10 mil paper backed veneer makes an invisible edge, as long as the glue line is thin.
Pete
Other than that, 10 mil paper backed veneer makes an invisible edge, as long as the glue line is thin.
Pete
edge veneering
For some speakers my son and I made over the Christmas break we used 45 degree edges for the sides. For the front and backs -- I used the table saw to cut the plywood down to the top veneer level and then fit them in. Thus it was a cut 3/4 inch wide and 11/16th inch deep. You can do this with a good combination blade or a panel cutting blade.
There is only a tiny bit of the edge showing.
You could go one step further and use the same technique to cut a small slice out of the side panels so that the edges perfectly match.
If you do this you should stain the pieces before assembly. If there is any glue runout you're toast.
For some speakers my son and I made over the Christmas break we used 45 degree edges for the sides. For the front and backs -- I used the table saw to cut the plywood down to the top veneer level and then fit them in. Thus it was a cut 3/4 inch wide and 11/16th inch deep. You can do this with a good combination blade or a panel cutting blade.
There is only a tiny bit of the edge showing.
You could go one step further and use the same technique to cut a small slice out of the side panels so that the edges perfectly match.
If you do this you should stain the pieces before assembly. If there is any glue runout you're toast.
I did not use wood sealer because it is hardwood. I will give it a try on a dummy box anyway to see if there is an improvement. There is many books on veneering but the problem is to find the right one (especially when you buy from amazon). The forum miss a specialist in cabinet making and finishing 
Francois
Sanding sealer is always useful, simply because it fills pores in the grain, whatever type of wood you use.
The other method to get an even colour that is used in a manufacturing situation, is to premix your varnish and stain. Again this gives a much more balanced finish, but usually requires a spraying system to give a good result, as well as several test pieces to get the right blend.
Sanding sealer is always useful, simply because it fills pores in the grain, whatever type of wood you use.
The other method to get an even colour that is used in a manufacturing situation, is to premix your varnish and stain. Again this gives a much more balanced finish, but usually requires a spraying system to give a good result, as well as several test pieces to get the right blend.
Yes, I will probably do some testing next week with a sealer...
I tried to take some picture of the edges. This is what you can see at about 5cm.
If you look at more than 20-30cm, the edges are almost invisible.
I tried to take some picture of the edges. This is what you can see at about 5cm.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
If you look at more than 20-30cm, the edges are almost invisible.
homestead finishing
I might suggest heading over to homestead finishing and see what they say over there. That would be the home of Jeff Jewitt, one of the top finishers in the industry. He has a web board, and will answer questions. (He also has at least one book on finishing, which I have, and its quite good) His website is: Homestead Finishing
Check him out, it can't hurt!
I might suggest heading over to homestead finishing and see what they say over there. That would be the home of Jeff Jewitt, one of the top finishers in the industry. He has a web board, and will answer questions. (He also has at least one book on finishing, which I have, and its quite good) His website is: Homestead Finishing
Check him out, it can't hurt!
The key to clean finish is preparation, and that goes for veneering. When building boxes, or anything for that matter, plumb, level and square will make the next step easier.
Sometimes a small flaw in joinery will cause you to want to sand it (locally) so it's smooth to the touch, but the better way is to deal with the whole surface, keeping the side flat and the edges square and sharp. This might mean filler if it's the substrate for veneer, or sanding the whole surface with a solid block of wood under sandpaper. The edges of the veneer can then be cut with a block plane rather easily, the key is to keep your tools SHARP.
When veneering over rounded corners, it's important (if you have to sand) to keep the curve consistant from end to end so no lumps or dips cause voids in the veneer.
Rockler sells a tool for cutting veneer here:
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?sku=1286&filter=92825&DID=6
When dealing with hardwoods to be stained, the ideal surface is a cut finish, meaning the planed edge of a board (again, SHARP plane) will look better than a muddy finish that sanding will produce, and a carefully sharpened scraper can give you the look that sanding with progressively finer sandpaper can only approach. You might keep this in mind on small surfaces.
Sanding sealer is a weak finish that will stop stain from penetrating as much as raw wood and will help end-grain from absorbing too much stain and thus becoming darker and more visible. It also has a high solid particulate content to help the final finish lay flatter on coarse woods like oak. It will affect the staining, so I suggest stain test pieces to make sure your final color will be right.
Never mix stain and varnish, or use these one-step finishes, unless it has to be done today... for your ex mother-in-law.
When it comes to applying urethane-type finishes, the first couple coats will provide a protective surface for the wood, but if you want a fine cabinet-grade finish that will act like a magnifying glass for the grain of your nice wood, the key is to get the surface of the finish FLAT.
You need to apply many coats of finish and sand each one with (400 grit or finer) wet-dry sandpaper backed by a wood block in a slurry of mineral spirits. You'll know when you've gotten each coat as flat as you can, when a suction can be felt under the block. You'll know when the finish is complete, the wood will be smiling at you under it's last dried coat.
Sometimes a small flaw in joinery will cause you to want to sand it (locally) so it's smooth to the touch, but the better way is to deal with the whole surface, keeping the side flat and the edges square and sharp. This might mean filler if it's the substrate for veneer, or sanding the whole surface with a solid block of wood under sandpaper. The edges of the veneer can then be cut with a block plane rather easily, the key is to keep your tools SHARP.
When veneering over rounded corners, it's important (if you have to sand) to keep the curve consistant from end to end so no lumps or dips cause voids in the veneer.
Rockler sells a tool for cutting veneer here:
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?sku=1286&filter=92825&DID=6
When dealing with hardwoods to be stained, the ideal surface is a cut finish, meaning the planed edge of a board (again, SHARP plane) will look better than a muddy finish that sanding will produce, and a carefully sharpened scraper can give you the look that sanding with progressively finer sandpaper can only approach. You might keep this in mind on small surfaces.
Sanding sealer is a weak finish that will stop stain from penetrating as much as raw wood and will help end-grain from absorbing too much stain and thus becoming darker and more visible. It also has a high solid particulate content to help the final finish lay flatter on coarse woods like oak. It will affect the staining, so I suggest stain test pieces to make sure your final color will be right.
Never mix stain and varnish, or use these one-step finishes, unless it has to be done today... for your ex mother-in-law.
When it comes to applying urethane-type finishes, the first couple coats will provide a protective surface for the wood, but if you want a fine cabinet-grade finish that will act like a magnifying glass for the grain of your nice wood, the key is to get the surface of the finish FLAT.
You need to apply many coats of finish and sand each one with (400 grit or finer) wet-dry sandpaper backed by a wood block in a slurry of mineral spirits. You'll know when you've gotten each coat as flat as you can, when a suction can be felt under the block. You'll know when the finish is complete, the wood will be smiling at you under it's last dried coat.
Thanks for your reply. Today I did some other testing by removing the paper in the back of the veneer and I got better results but still not perfect! I will never be happy until I find the way to make a professionnal finish like the commercial loudspeaker. The one that I saw there is no way to see if it is veneer or solid wood but I know it is veneer. The question is still pending
Mineral spirits (paint thinner) is very handy to have in the shop. It'll clean up glue deposits on your router bits, before you re-oil the bearings.
Wipe the wood you are about to finish with it, to clean your project before applying more finish.
Gasoline is highly volatile, dirty, smelly, will leave a nasty film on your work, and is dangerous.
Water will raise the grain of any wood it makes contact with, not something you'll want to deal with when finishing, actually its just what you're protecting the wood from.
Wipe the wood you are about to finish with it, to clean your project before applying more finish.
Gasoline is highly volatile, dirty, smelly, will leave a nasty film on your work, and is dangerous.
Water will raise the grain of any wood it makes contact with, not something you'll want to deal with when finishing, actually its just what you're protecting the wood from.
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