Modern / New generation 15" Pro drivers in hifi

[Brett]

Has anyone got any experience with the newer generation of 15" pro drivers in domestic applications? Been wondering about 18Sound, BMS, Ciare, Beyma, B&C, Eminence, P Audio etc and am looking for assistance in narrowing down the candidates as they're expensive to buy and test. In my application they'd be used < 400Hz.

So far I've only seen a mention of the 18Sound 15N930 here.

Any links etc you may know of would also be appreciated.

[ScottG]

No personal experience.. but this driver has always caught my eye for its non-linear distortion, especially near resonance (..in particular note its measured reference and its scaling):

http://www.bmspro.info/index.php?sho...10282&id=54386

Still.. the mass is pretty significant and the suspension is going to detract from some of its linear behavior above 100 Hz, so the driver I'm looking forward to is not a 15 inch pro.. but rather 2 8" drivers:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/pipeline.htm

That Jantzen JA8008 is from Seas but spec'ed by Troels. Really looking forward to seeing its T/S param's and impulse response (..and all of its convolutions).

[Brett]

Thanks for the suggestion on that particular BMS. I've got all the datasheets, mainly looked at the neo's because of shipping cost, but that does look good.

[terry j]

I use a PHL 18 inch pro driver, and cross it at 300 hz to another phl mid (high power handling, but I don't think it's classed as a pro driver).

I like it very much indeed, but am left wondering whether if I did it again I would use a pro driver. The only reason I say that is due to it being a pro driver it does not want to go all that low naturally. It's natural -3 db point was something around 70 hz from memory.

I currently use a deqx, prior to that I used the dcx. To get it to go low I threw heaps of eq and power at it, but the best I could ever get was flat in the room to 29 hz. Don't get me wrong, it was still VERY impressive and had a LOT of oomph ( if you'll pardon the esoteric audiophile lingo).

I have since built some subs that get me to 13 hz in room, and I took some of the 'strain' of the 18 by crossing it around 80 hz or so. I didn't really hear any distortion previously, but logic says that by eq'ing it so hard it must have been present.

So from that regard if I had my time again I would perhaps have picked a bass driver that goes low anyway and maybe have avoided the sub. I think you'll find most pro drivers don't go low, as it's not really needed at the concert (??)

[Brett]

Hi Terry,

I'm not so worried about the LF from them, mainly sensitivity and I have <80-100Hz covered. I have a very strong preference for efficient low distortion designs and at my home a very large room to fill with little room gain. I also prefer tube amps and am aiming to design something that has all the dynamic snap of my old horns, but none of the other anomolies of the breed. It's also going to be an overkill system; I posted a thread about my ideas a while back and have been refining them since.

The PHLs are excellent drivers from reputation. I think I read somewhere that they're designed by former Audax people. I'd appreciate knowing what the 6" is as I've looked at these too. Did you have to import them?

Interesting that all the good new designs are coming from Europe now.

Cheers

[terry j]

well if you don't need to go low then it's all rosy

I too have heard about the guy being from Audax, guess that makes it official ha ha.

I use the 1660 mid driver, you would have to look up the sensitivity (I do know it's more sensitive than the cabbasse tweeter I use) and in any case all that is looked after for me by the deqx. A recent Aussie design that is making waves (SGR) uses the 16 ohm version (they run them in D'Appolito) so the gab on them is certainly positive. They do have a rough breakup around 6K from memory, again of little concern to me when I use 150db/octave slopes.

I would have to look up which 18 it is if you were interested, in any case it is the one described as 'optimised for sound quality over efficiency' or some such (that is if you can believe the marketing) and they are still around 92 db efficient or so.

Pat at WAR Audio is the aussie distributor.

You are always more than welcome to hear my setup and make your own conclusions (after you posted about not being able to audition the pro drivers you are looking at), means a little drive though

They are not cheap, the 18 was around $850 from memory, the 6 inch is around $280 again from memory.

[Brett]

Originally posted by terry j
well if you don't need to go low then it's all rosy

I too have heard about the guy being from Audax, guess that makes it official ha ha.

I use the 1660 mid driver, you would have to look up the sensitivity (I do know it's more sensitive than the cabbasse tweeter I use) and in any case all that is looked after for me by the deqx. A recent Aussie design that is making waves (SGR) uses the 16 ohm version (they run them in D'Appolito) so the gab on them is certainly positive. They do have a rough breakup around 6K from memory, again of little concern to me when I use 150db/octave slopes.

I would have to look up which 18 it is if you were interested, in any case it is the one described as 'optimised for sound quality over efficiency' or some such (that is if you can believe the marketing) and they are still around 92 db efficient or so.

Pat at WAR Audio is the aussie distributor.

You are always more than welcome to hear my setup and make your own conclusions (after you posted about not being able to audition the pro drivers you are looking at), means a little drive though

They are not cheap, the 18 was around $850 from memory, the 6 inch is around $280 again from memory.

Thanks, I've got most of the datasheets so I'll look at them again to check the model on the 18. The 1660 caught my eye before as did the 1120's.

Are you still having a bit of a GTG over Bathurst weekend?

[terry j]

Originally posted by Brett
Thanks, I've got most of the datasheets so I'll look at them again to check the model on the 18. The 1660 caught my eye before as did the 1120's.

Are you still having a bit of a GTG over Bathurst weekend?

Of course it's possible that if you aren't trying to go too low, then you might not go with an 18 for many reasons, WAF?? for example. Personally I find the 'weight' given by the 18 even if only going from 80-300 hz impressive, no strain at all and a sound I have yet to hear duplicated elsewhere. Still, I suppose a 12 will do that adequately too.

In any case, if you did hear them you would undoubtedly hear the 'family resemblance' as it were. I know drivers aren't supposed to have a sound, but I think you get what I mean.

Sure, the Bathurst weekend is still on, am kinda surprised at the lack of interest from the other thread, given all the initial 'want to's' that popped up when the thread was first floated. Oh well.

[Brett]

Originally posted by terry j
Of course it's possible that if you aren't trying to go too low, then you might not go with an 18 for many reasons, WAF?? for example. Personally I find the 'weight' given by the 18 even if only going from 80-300 hz impressive, no strain at all and a sound I have yet to hear duplicated elsewhere. Still, I suppose a 12 will do that adequately too.

In any case, if you did hear them you would undoubtedly hear the 'family resemblance' as it were. I know drivers aren't supposed to have a sound, but I think you get what I mean.

No W so no WAF. The description given sounds like what I'm looking for.
Bad car anaology time: I used to have some great turbo Rotaries in lightweight cars. Great cars, very quick, but very hectic feeling. I always wanted to go fast in them. But another mate had a worked big block in an old Holden (an HX with an alloy BB is quite light). When he hit the go pedal, it changed postcodes and did it with this ease that I've still never felt in a car. A similar sort of scale and ease is what I'm looking for out of these speakers. They'll be big, have lots of drivers and be stupid efficient. Now I just need to make sure it all sounds good as I intend it to be the last project for a looooong time.

Originally posted by terry j
Sure, the Bathurst weekend is still on, am kinda surprised at the lack of interest from the other thread, given all the initial 'want to's' that popped up when the thread was first floated. Oh well.

I've been waiting for some things to settle here before I put my hand up. My mate Chris and I will ride up for the day as that's all we can.

Looking forward to hearing your speakers.

[terry j]

Originally posted by Brett
When he hit the go pedal, it changed postcodes and did it with this ease that I've still never felt in a car. A similar sort of scale and ease is what I'm looking for out of these speakers.

My mate Chris and I will ride up for the day as that's all we can.

Looking forward to hearing your speakers.

Yeah, that analogy is kinda what I'm talking about.

I'll e-mail you re the weekend, glad you and your mate can make it. For all I know you may not like them, and that's OK too, you will have at least learnt something. I assume Chris is into audio too? Funny how not too much interest from the other NSWelshmen. Most are coming from Melbourne!!

EDIT

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