I almost hate to post this...
after reading the tale of the saws (my namesake, I guess). However since these were prototypes, next time think about using a hot wire to cut the PVC. You can use the same type of jigs, and use a very tight nichrome wire in a hacksaw type holder to make *very* clean cuts. You would want to do it in a well ventilated area.
Other than that - its a spectacular result - and a fine testement to the wonders of the forum, a very special wife, and determination of DIYer. Great stuff.
after reading the tale of the saws (my namesake, I guess). However since these were prototypes, next time think about using a hot wire to cut the PVC. You can use the same type of jigs, and use a very tight nichrome wire in a hacksaw type holder to make *very* clean cuts. You would want to do it in a well ventilated area.
Other than that - its a spectacular result - and a fine testement to the wonders of the forum, a very special wife, and determination of DIYer. Great stuff.
Re: OT
I don't know who joseph campbell is, but comparative mythology is a sub-discipline of structuralism (imo), which is an umbrella discipline for very many "comparative" fields. So yes, I study that kind of stuff, too. And this is threadjacking.
Wellllll. sorta. These enclosures are the pupal stage of an interpretation of a fantastic Hebrew Myth-Figure. But it is tangential...
So, yes, I'll try bolting the things on later this week.
Dave
faustian bargin said:
I don't know who joseph campbell is, but comparative mythology is a sub-discipline of structuralism (imo), which is an umbrella discipline for very many "comparative" fields. So yes, I study that kind of stuff, too. And this is threadjacking.
Wellllll. sorta. These enclosures are the pupal stage of an interpretation of a fantastic Hebrew Myth-Figure. But it is tangential...
So, yes, I'll try bolting the things on later this week.
Dave
Re: Re: OT
I do believe that people on this forum worry too much about the dreaded "threadjacking". This thread has had some 450 absolutely dead-on-target posts. I don't think anyone need worry that if the conversation meanders for a few posts, The Kibosh
gets put on.
By the way, does anyone actually know what The Kibosh is?
kneadle said:
I do believe that people on this forum worry too much about the dreaded "threadjacking". This thread has had some 450 absolutely dead-on-target posts. I don't think anyone need worry that if the conversation meanders for a few posts, The Kibosh
gets put on.By the way, does anyone actually know what The Kibosh is?
Re: Re: Re: OT
Kibosh- no-one knows, see here for details:http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/kibosh.htm
In one of those strange cases of synchronicity I was looking this up just the other day!
Anyway, if a thread does go off topic for a while, we tend to just nudge it back, i.e, brad point bits
Anyway, as you have built this TL, maybe I should change the title of this thread, we're all off topic now!
kelticwizard said:
I do believe that people on this forum worry too much about the dreaded "threadjacking". This thread has had some 450 absolutely dead-on-target posts. I don't think anyone need worry that if the conversation meanders for a few posts, The Kibosh
By the way, does anyone actually know what The Kibosh is?
Kibosh- no-one knows, see here for details:http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/kibosh.htm
In one of those strange cases of synchronicity I was looking this up just the other day!
Anyway, if a thread does go off topic for a while, we tend to just nudge it back, i.e, brad point bits
Anyway, as you have built this TL, maybe I should change the title of this thread, we're all off topic now!
joins keep breaking
joins keep breaking
Have you though about fiber glass rough-up the PVC slap on some two part resin then the fiber sheet finaly more resin in about three or four hours it is ready for sanding it is great stuff (must have ventlation when using) after all boats are maid of it BTW they look GREAT!!
joins keep breaking
Have you though about fiber glass rough-up the PVC slap on some two part resin then the fiber sheet finaly more resin in about three or four hours it is ready for sanding it is great stuff (must have ventlation when using) after all boats are maid of it BTW they look GREAT!!
Please forgive me, but I didn't quite follow your post. What was that again?
Here's the completed project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12769&highlight=spiral
Dave
Here's the completed project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12769&highlight=spiral
Dave
Why dont you make your pipe with styrofoam cut to shape and glue toghether, then pour concrete around ad after the concrete is set you remove the foam ( could melt with solvent ) you will be able to shape anything with tapers bent and so on. I would be carefull with stovepipe the ribs may have an effet since they are all at the same spacing and will ad reverbaration in the pipe at several frequencys.
with tapers bent and so on. I would be carefull with stovepipe the ribs may have an effet since they are all at the same spacing and will ad reverbaration in the pipe at several frequencys.
You've got to believe me when I tell you that I have BIG plans for a speaker system. And when I say BIG I mean EXTRAVAGANT. And huge. I need to buy a house first, so everything is in design phase. Secret design phase.
BIG secret design phase.
Not because of you all. I follow every single thread that might even be remotely useful in designing odd shapes.
Oh MAN I can't wait.
Dave
BIG secret design phase.
Not because of you all. I follow every single thread that might even be remotely useful in designing odd shapes.
Oh MAN I can't wait.
Dave
believe it or not
I finally have this project up on my website....
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/davidduke/index.html
dave
I finally have this project up on my website....
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/davidduke/index.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
Addendum: oooooops, seems my comments have come a little late as this has been built. The twirling around the plant dragon look is very novel Nice work
Dave, it seems that it would be a shame to compromise the performance due to a small cross sectional area in a design that is so difficult to build. ie why go to all the effort if the performance isn't going to match the novelty and cleverness of the construction?
How does it model in mathcad? It would be interesting to see if you haven't already shown.
The idea of fibreglass mentioned earlier seems more achievable to me, and also potentially more stylish and visually impressive. You could get the shape with chicken wire and then apply fibreglass over it. This gives you flexibility to get the exact shape you want. You are not constrained by the need to cut segments, or to find pipe of a given diameter, and you can taper the cross section. It also seems easier this way. The only downside is the tedium involved in shaping it and getting it smooth, but this is going to be tedious no matter what.
Perhaps you should make a very SIMPLE prototype before commiting. ie. simplify the spiral dramatically by using say 45 degree bends and see what result you get, perhaps measure it. If you like the result, then go on to improving it. Perhaps make a larger tapered SD of conventional design and compare. You could also try a spiral and conventional version of the same TL (taper, length and SD ) and see how they compare - to see what is the effect of the spiral.
Then perhaps you could embark on the construction challenge
Disclaimer: Apologies if anyone has offered the same comments that I'm making here (but it's a HUUUGE thread, easy to miss things) ...
Nice workDave, it seems that it would be a shame to compromise the performance due to a small cross sectional area in a design that is so difficult to build. ie why go to all the effort if the performance isn't going to match the novelty and cleverness of the construction?
How does it model in mathcad? It would be interesting to see if you haven't already shown.
The idea of fibreglass mentioned earlier seems more achievable to me, and also potentially more stylish and visually impressive. You could get the shape with chicken wire and then apply fibreglass over it. This gives you flexibility to get the exact shape you want. You are not constrained by the need to cut segments, or to find pipe of a given diameter, and you can taper the cross section. It also seems easier this way. The only downside is the tedium involved in shaping it and getting it smooth, but this is going to be tedious no matter what.
Perhaps you should make a very SIMPLE prototype before commiting. ie. simplify the spiral dramatically by using say 45 degree bends and see what result you get, perhaps measure it. If you like the result, then go on to improving it. Perhaps make a larger tapered SD of conventional design and compare. You could also try a spiral and conventional version of the same TL (taper, length and SD ) and see how they compare - to see what is the effect of the spiral.
Then perhaps you could embark on the construction challenge
Disclaimer: Apologies if anyone has offered the same comments that I'm making here (but it's a HUUUGE thread, easy to miss things) ...
Paul,
Let's see, where to begin? This project sounds awesome, but there are problems, one of which is NOT bass response. I've run it through the ringer only recently, and it gets down there without any significant peaks or valleys. I'll be glad to post the models sometime today.
The most significant problem has been imaging. I think the response of each speaker differs greatly (in a small way), and that's because I sawed 22 pieces of 6-inch PVC by hand. There is really no way to be exact enough. But even in that regard, the sound is sweeeeeet, though the stage a smidge distorted.
I was so excited by the success of the project that it really HAS become a prototype in and of itself. At the moment, however, I'm having to build wife-pleasing speakers for our new home, so the creative stuff has been storing in my head. I'm exploring the possibility of a ceramic or plaster sculpted speaker, an idea which will give me worlds of flexibility as far as prototyping and, you know, rejecting a design when it isn't good.
Chicken wire will have to be sneaked into the house. No explanation in the world will satisfy the Queen. But you're right. Chicken wire is an indispensable part of my DIY speaker future.
Stay tuned!
Dave
Let's see, where to begin? This project sounds awesome, but there are problems, one of which is NOT bass response. I've run it through the ringer only recently, and it gets down there without any significant peaks or valleys. I'll be glad to post the models sometime today.
The most significant problem has been imaging. I think the response of each speaker differs greatly (in a small way), and that's because I sawed 22 pieces of 6-inch PVC by hand. There is really no way to be exact enough. But even in that regard, the sound is sweeeeeet, though the stage a smidge distorted.
I was so excited by the success of the project that it really HAS become a prototype in and of itself. At the moment, however, I'm having to build wife-pleasing speakers for our new home, so the creative stuff has been storing in my head. I'm exploring the possibility of a ceramic or plaster sculpted speaker, an idea which will give me worlds of flexibility as far as prototyping and, you know, rejecting a design when it isn't good.
Chicken wire will have to be sneaked into the house. No explanation in the world will satisfy the Queen. But you're right. Chicken wire is an indispensable part of my DIY speaker future.
Stay tuned!
Dave
Best of...
Here are a few highlights from the nearly 50-page thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=123947#post123947
(I nearly died once)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=124591#post124591
(thanks Steve! He was instrumental in keeping us all on the ground)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=124698#post124698
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=125564#post125564
(this was THE watershed moment in construction)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=127359#post127359
(the decoration idea)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=127558#post127558
(the wild celebration begins)
Here are a few highlights from the nearly 50-page thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=123947#post123947
(I nearly died once)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=124591#post124591
(thanks Steve! He was instrumental in keeping us all on the ground)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=124698#post124698
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=125564#post125564
(this was THE watershed moment in construction)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=127359#post127359
(the decoration idea)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=127558#post127558
(the wild celebration begins)
I'm surprised from time to time at the difficulty some audio enthusiasts have in keeping their spouse happy!
That word sculpted might turn out to have a redeeming quality for you. What if you consider your speaker to be a work of sculpture as much as engineering?
Now here is some food for thought that might interest you given your theological background: consider the difference between the design we see in nature and design work done by mankind. Given my design background I have often pondered this. When people design, they do so mostly from a limited framework, which is often classed as "abstract art" which has no technical or practical function, "engineering" which is primarily about technical and practical function, "architecture" which is often a hybrid of engineering and art and I could go on.
What I see in the design of nature is something rarely, if ever seen in human design. I see design without boundaries between form & function, aesthetics & beauty, order & chaos. We create order, but it is chaotic. Nature is chaotic, yet it has order.
Now here is an interesting challenge - to design this speaker in such a way that it blurs the distinction between art and engineering. Engineering has led you to the spiral, but perhaps you could take it to the next level by creating a sculpture out of it.
Perhaps a speaker that is sculpture could be invited into living areas as a featured work of art by the queen. (although I'm not sure if the likely serpent associations would work in your favour or not!)
For those of you who are only interested in the technical side of this discussion, please excuse my philosophical ramblings
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