12" inch woofer suggestions?

[cujet]

OK, I want BIG rockin' speakers that sound great too. I posted on the other forums looking for ideas. I hope it is OK to post my question here too.

I am leaning towards dual 12 inch woofers per sealed cabinet. I like the sound of a good sealed system.

What I want is the ability to produce low freq down to the hearing threshold. But I also want the sharp clean sound of tight bass, not muddy.

I am looking for the right drivers, with good response down low.

Thanks

Chris

P.S. I am OK with dual 10's but would prefer bigger.

[sdclc126]

Please provide more details about your overall goals and needs. What is your budget for the entire project? What IS the project? Are you building 3-ways? Music/home theater? What is your room size? etc. etc.

The more information you can provide the more help you will get!

[tinitus]

With double 12" you need drivers with stiff cones with tight and controlled bass, or else you might get in trouble

ETON might be an option

[Pano]

Originally posted by cujet
What I want is the ability to produce low freq down to the hearing threshold. But I also want the sharp clean sound of tight bass, not muddy.

Hmmm..... And just how much money and how big a room did you say you have?

[ThSpeakerDude88]

also depends on what type of amp you are using, how much power ouput capabilities you have. IE do you have 20 wpch that requiers 98db speakers or 100wpch that requiers 90db speakers?

The wattage you have and how loud your speakers will go depends on efficiency, which sealed cabinets tend to lack. You do increase it by using two woofers instead of one, however.

[BHTX]

Originally posted by cujet
What I want is the ability to produce low freq down to the hearing threshold. But I also want the sharp clean sound of tight bass, not muddy.

Open baffle + open baffle augmentation + several massive sealed 15"+ subwoofers with EQ under 35-40Hz.

..This is what I'm currently planning to do anyway.

[cujet]

200WPC into 8ohm Adcom amp (325 into 4, which I prefer), or 4ohm capable Yam 125wpc reciever (250 into 4).

Budget (drivers/crossover) is "within reason" I do not mind spending money to get what I want. 2000 dollars is out of the question.

BTW, I have a home machine shop and the wood.

The project: Fluid at this point. Options OK. I will consider anything that makes sense, (such as TL, ported or line array). I do prefer the sound of sealed.

Likely to be 3 ways designed to perform on music. HT is will be the most common use, but I want the performance for music.

Clean "Hi Fi" sound is a must, even at low levels.

The room is about 15 x 20 with 11 foot ceilings, open on one end into the kitchen/breakfast nook.


Thanks,

Chris

[planet10]

CSS SD12 ... you'll need mids that reach down to at least 150 Hz (always a good idea anyway). XO should be active (ie use the Adcom just for the woofers)

dave

[cujet]

Oops, I forgot to mention that I do not want to bi-amp right now. I would be happy to set it up to be capable of active crossovers, but I want to be able to use a standard amp/passive crossover right now. That way it is easy to move the speakers to another location for temporary use.

Currently, I have a 6.5" with silk dome MMT setup on top of powered 10 inch subs. I was hoping to avoid the use of subs for music. I just don't like the ones I have heard.

On the other forums, most everyone is suggesting an (all Dayton RS) 10 inch woofers with 7 inch mids and a dome tweeter. I was hoping for more punch, but maybe I won't be able to achieve what I want with the larger drivers.

I had been considering the Dayton series II 12inch woofer.

Chris

[BHTX]

Originally posted by cujet
Oops, I forgot to mention that I do not want to bi-amp right now. I would be happy to set it up to be capable of active crossovers, but I want to be able to use a standard amp/passive crossover right now. That way it is easy to move the speakers to another location for temporary use.

Well, that just eliminated your best options.

Originally posted by cujet
Currently, I have a 6.5" with silk dome MMT setup on top of powered 10 inch subs.

..You already have this? What are they??

Originally posted by cujet
I was hoping to avoid the use of subs for music. I just don't like the ones I have heard.

Just goes to show that the ones you've heard were probably poorly designed, or poorly integrated with the rest of the system they were used in, poorly integrated in a room with possibly poor acoustics for sub bass frequencies, etc etc. Any possibility that you could name specific models that you didn't like? And remember, this is DIY, and you can do whatever you want. Disregard most experiences with consumer junk you've heard. Audio doesn't have to be that way. You make it perform and sound the way you want it to sound, for less money!

Originally posted by cujet
I was hoping for more punch, but maybe I won't be able to achieve what I want with the larger drivers. I had been considering the Dayton series II 12inch woofer.

You say you want 'punch', eh? Yet you're demanding a sealed enclosure? I understand though, somewhat, as I've enjoyed many hi-end custom sealed subwoofers over the last several years.

On the other hand, if you're absolutely stuck on going with a sealed enclosure (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), that 12" Dayton series II is definitely out of the question. For a .71 Qtc, you're looking at 1.7 ft^3 for -3dB @ over 56Hz. If you want some fake 'punch' to add to that with a bit higher Qtc, you're looking at a much higher roll off than that. The 12" Series II has an EBP of 77.1 anyway. Massive 12" 4-way towers that roll off at 60Hz?? Not an option, if you ask me.

I highly suggest you consider the CSS SD12 that planet10 recommended, or at least something very similar. I've had experience with the CSS Subduction series SDX15 (very different subwoofer driver than the SD12 tho), and I was very impressed. I've also modeled the SDX15 for several different applications, and it's currently my favorite subwoofer driver. If I didn't own my 4 Ascendant Avalanche 15's, I'd own the SDX15's no doubt. CSS is good stuff. You can get the SD12 for $155 + $28 shipping from Kyle at Acoustic-Visions.

edit: Oh and... your Adcom amp, GFA-555, right? I have a 555 mkII sitting around that I haven't put to use. Very solid amp, but it's a bit too grainy and forward for me in the highs. HOWEVER, it'd be an awesome amplifier for lower freq requirements, as long as you're not needing 1000w. Damping factor >600 if I remember correctly? Yeah, I'd use it. Could easily be put to use with what you're wanting to build here.