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Old 27th June 2010, 12:52 AM   #4361
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpoes View Post
I think choosing to program in .net in this day and age is perfectly reasonable, and has not put anyone out as a result. The problems are not in his choice of programming framework, its the program itself.
It's undoubtedly the program, in modern terms I am just a hack. That I could get anything to work "over-the-net" amazed even me! How one would go about debugging something like that I have absolutely no idea. Polar_map is a dead end because of what I am doing now. I found the development environment so appealing that I jumped into a project that is so complex that I had resisted doing it for years - for good reason. It would not have been possible without .Net. What I am doing now will allow anyone to create those kinds of polar maps with a simple home setup. What I posted requires MathCAD interface to cruch the data and its very clumsy. What Polar_map is now is only one of multiple features of the new software.
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Old 27th June 2010, 12:54 AM   #4362
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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OK, then let me put it another way.

HTML img tags have an alt field. Although it was mostly to help text browsers, it is also used for accessibility and gives something to read whilst our images download, i.e: it protects the resource from breaking. Respectfully, in your case this would mean putting up the original still images.
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Old 27th June 2010, 01:12 AM   #4363
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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I'm sorry, I don't follow. I know about the "alt" field, but I don't do much with it because nothing on my site takes any time to load - at least not for me.

EDIT! Something crossed my mind and I checked. I had forgotten that I had taken down the original images for the speakers. So now I follow your comments. It was my intention to have BOTH a static image and the link to the program. I just have not gotten arround to doing the static images.

But I do appreciate your concern now and thanks for pointing out this mistake. I had forgotten where I was in the process.

"I'm too old for this."
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Old 27th June 2010, 05:28 AM   #4364
poptart is offline poptart  Canada
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I'm one the apparently insignificant people using a mac and now I can't see any data on any of your speakers. If .Net is the future it's unfortunately worse than the past for me. I can't understand why we would need platform specific software just to look at some speaker tests?
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Old 27th June 2010, 06:24 AM   #4365
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Dr. Geddes' program isn't something that renders in the browser. It's actually a fully fledged application that runs on your machine like MS Word would (it just uses a different installation mechanism). It doesn't render in the browser at all. It requires the .net frame to be installed on the machine to launch and I think only IE can launch it. It's an idea Microsoft had for the .net framework a long time ago. People would write applications to run client side, that would be launched through IE. So the developer could make improvements, and the next time a user launched it, it would simply download the app again and the user would have the changes. I'm not aware of any major applications written to use it, and I'm not sure Microsoft touts it anymore, they've moved on to Silverlight.

He should be able to compile it to an exe such that it would run fine through wine on linux. A little effort and he could compile it to work on a Mac too.
Writing Mac OS X applications with Microsoft Visual Studio Express - MacCentre701

I don't see .net being the future though. Especially not client side one click deploy .net applications. .net will still remain a major development platform player, but I see everything shifting to HTML5 (including the .net framework, Mircosoft will just be a few years behind as usual). The demo of Quake2 playing in a browser using HTML5 is very impressive. Eventually the idea of a desktop computer is going to disappear. Our desktops will become internet thin clients, and your OS and all applications will live on servers out on the internet. Not going to happen in the next year or two, but ~10 I'd bet on it.

Google's Chrome OS and their announcement a week ago or so that they were dropping Windows from their organization entirely are Google's first major public steps in this direction.

Last edited by Dustin B; 27th June 2010 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 27th June 2010, 07:19 AM   #4366
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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For those of you making bets, I would not bet against MS. When you are the king of market share you are never "first to market" - it makes no sense. That's what the small guys do. But you do make sure that you select from the "bleeding edge" those technologies that work best. MS is ALWAYS late, and always will be - exactly what I would do in thier situation. No one, and I repeat, no one, has the market clout of MS. In the PC business Apple isn't even a player, they make their money on phones and MP3 players. In PCs they basically loose money.

I have some inside info on Google and I wouldn't bet them against MS in the long run.

Dustin is right that it is a client side app using "one click" and sucessful or not its embedded in Visual Studio and without it others would never see this program at all, IE or otherwise. So as far as I am concerned its a God-send. There is no mention of Silverlight in Visual Studio 2008.

What people don't realize is that a great portion of this program is written in FORTRAN. Yep - thats right. Now would anyone believe that a FORTRAN app could be run from the web!? I certainly wouldn't have. And there is no way that its going to run in Mac OS since the FORTRAN compiler doesn't support Mac. I don't know of any that do. Linux, yes, but not Mac.
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Old 27th June 2010, 03:53 PM   #4367
poptart is offline poptart  Canada
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What does the app do that couldn't be done in a browser? Not trying to be hostile, I just can't see it for myself to understand.
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Old 27th June 2010, 04:34 PM   #4368
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Hello poptart,

For what it's worth I sympathise with your concerns. HTML was meant to be platform independent. If microsoft does get it's way with the standards, the differences will then need to be made open, or there'll be hell to pay. Not that that addresses 'our' real concerns
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Old 27th June 2010, 05:54 PM   #4369
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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The app is not an HTML app, so how could it run in a browser? Whatever the future may bring regarding standards, the fact is that the App does not run in a browser. And even if it "could" be made to run in a browser, I not about to learn all new programming techniques to make that happen. I do not see the point in agruing what it "could be" versus what it "is". My job is not programming web apps, but clearly one of my major expertises is "numerical methods in acoustics". I do not ever see major engineering software running as a browser app, I just don't think that makes sense (the browser being the interface "terminal" to a server app, maybe, but the app will still be running in a higher level language than HTML. Client - server programming is beyond my expertise however.)

So to be more specific - try programming a Fourier Transform or Singular Value Decomposition in HTML. These techniques only exist in C++ and FORTRAN, with FORTRAN being by far the more efficient. Its an interesting story about why Intel bought the FORTRAN compiler from HP when HP wanted to cancel it. Its because INTEL has so much internal critical software written in FORTRAN than they needed to maintain an efficient compiler, and what they offer is by far the best FORTRAN compiler that has ever existed. Let me give you an example. In my program there are two large 2-dimensional complex matrices that need to be multipled together. In FORTRAN that code is one line of three variables like A = B*C and, the best part is, that the compiler parallelizes the computations running it on as many processors as are available to the system. No other language does this. No other language even comes close. In C++ this requires the coder write seperate threads for each processor - a monumental task and C++ does not have a native Complex Data type. I don't think that any other language could even do the problem. I know that VB.Net can't.
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Old 27th June 2010, 06:24 PM   #4370
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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I believe that I have solved the biggest concern. Thanks AllenB for making me aware of this flaw in my website. I had forgetten to complete what I was doing.

A static picture of each system is now shown on the web page for each system and people with the right access can still run an interactive one. The format for all of the data pictures (mine and others) is now the same, which was a major goal of this whole thing. We can now compare many different systems is a standard format that makes these comparisons relavent, unlike the previous situation where there was no compreshensive data set available which could be compared across different designs.
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