The Objectives of a Loudspeaker in a Small Room - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd June 2007, 11:28 AM   #11
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
what a thread! what a question!
interesting enough for me to log in (at last) and try (at least ) to write something in english

IMHO there are three fundamental issues in audio
two of them are electroacoustical (the third concerns retrieval of the signal from the recording medium)

the first electroacustical problem concerns the microphone in a recording space
the second concerns the loudspeaker in a listening space

much is debatable in both, much is not yet understood and much seems to be overlooked

let me draw Your attention to some interesting ideas on the subject
these are so far practically overlooked on this forum, judging from "forum search" results:
http://www.moultonlabs.com/dave_more...dorf_interview
http://www.carlssonplanet.com/downlo...sson_ortho.pdf
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Acoustics...ll%20Rooms.doc
http://www.stereolith.ch/

contrary, perhaps, to the first impression, these concepts have much in common
one should read "between the lines"
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2007, 12:09 AM   #12
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tampa
Here is one persons approach to room solutions using dipoles and room treatments.
Placement/treatment for dipoles

cheers,

AJ
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2007, 11:04 AM   #13
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
thanks for the link AJinFLA

very insightfull comments and quite solid theoretical background

I have one important reservation though

the author writes: "by preserving the sidedness of early reflections, the ear does not receive cross room reflections that would otherwise cause perception of the loudspeaker as the sound source"

"perception of the loudspeaker as the sound source" can be a major problem indeed
but not always - much depends on how the loudspeaker is positioned in the room
take corner horns or positiong recommended by Harold Beveridge for his electrostats as an counterexamples (see "the Beveridges": http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL22/...3/62208841.jpg )

but the main cause of the problem is an interaural crosstalk and not assymetric reflections as suggested above

the truth is that the loudspeakers are localized as separate sound sources beacuse of interaural crosstalk i.e. because both ears are receiving a sound wave from both loudspeakers when they are positioned in a "stereo triangle"

there is nothing wrong with that "per se"
after all Moulton rightly points that "loudspeakers themselves are perceived in stereo as early reflections of a sound whose direct version we missed"
that's perfectly OK, this is how "stereo" works

BUT the problem arises when perceiving of the loudspeakers as "early reflections of a sound whose direct version we missed" conflicts with psychoacoustics of the listening room, i.e. when the "listening room data", gathered by the brain, are suggesting that they (loudspeakers) shouldn't be THE FIRST early reflections and yet they are so perceived - as the FIRST AND DOMINATING early reflections - because the so called "direct sound" is coming from them

this situation - which is nearly inevitable in a typical "stereo triangle" of typically positioned (i.e. well into the room and away from the walls) loudspeakers in a typical listening room - results in serious limitations in "spaciousness, envelopment, image depth, and image solidity" factors

it is a major problem from the point of view of "achieving realism of sound reproduction" (a "recognition factor")
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2007, 12:35 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Western Sydney
Default Re: Multichannel

Re: "Multichannel (and I prefer three to two, I use three in my own system) is attractive",

as a matter of interest, what signal goes to the 3rd (centre?) speaker, L+R?

(I've though about trying this for some time).

Cheers,
Pete McK
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2007, 05:08 PM   #15
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Re: PeteMcK

one of the most interesting three-channel systems is Stereolith from Switzerland: http://www.stereolith.ch/

the center channel is only from around 2 kHz and up and probably L+R but I'm not sure

and here is a review of heavily modified Stereolith Monitor 232: http://magazine-audio.com/essais-hi-...intes-hi-fi/22
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2007, 07:23 PM   #16
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MTL
woa at last....
this is the exact subject i have been trying to bring up for a few months ..but nobody has ever really followed
( i will blame it on my very poor english syntax/grammar
)


What you are bringing up here now Thomas,
is the main reason why i have taken a big step back in all my audio quest/research ..back to the original goal..

i think that alot of us ( and probably all others )
are currently "lost" in our search for the ultimate compromise for reproduction of our sources.

I firmly believe that there is only 1 possible perfect solution (well either perfect or featuring the best compromises ) , but unfortunatly there is a large ( but probable near definite ) number of different source attributes wich make this quest's potential very broad.

So we can only hope to get as close as possible to the solution, within our sources limits.

I have yet to understand the recording process
( my knowledge is quite limited in this area )
wich could help me quite a bit in understanding how the source was intended to be played, so i wil relay on you gurus to point out the major components of the sound recording stage.

So what now to do with the miriad of possibilities...
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2007, 07:26 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


Unfortunately the results were taken off of my website when I closed down the Summa pages.

Hi Earl,

might this be the file you are refering to?

best, LC
Attached Files
File Type: pdf subjective+study+results.pdf (57.9 KB, 557 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 06:58 AM   #18
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by lovechild



Hi Earl,

might this be the file you are refering to?

best, LC
Thats the one. Thanks so much for posting this.

This was a first cut prototype of the Summa. Many changes have been made since these results were obtained.

Today I would expect much better results, and our multiple sub technique would raise the bass extension ratings much higher.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 07:01 AM   #19
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Default Re: Re: Multichannel

Quote:
Originally posted by PeteMcK
Re: "Multichannel (and I prefer three to two, I use three in my own system) is attractive",

as a matter of interest, what signal goes to the 3rd (centre?) speaker, L+R?

(I've though about trying this for some time).

Cheers,
Pete McK
Yes and no. When there is no center channel, as there is on movie tracks, etc. then it is derived from L+R - 3dB.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 07:35 AM   #20
terry j is offline terry j  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
you can probably tell I'm not au fait with HT stuff, but can someone explain how to generate L+R-3db in a stereo situation?? I'm assuming Ht RECEIVERS OR WHATEVER have some sort of summing function, but how would we do it with stereo amps.

this is becoming interesting
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
QuAD ESL 57 in a small room? dude007 Planars & Exotics 3 26th November 2007 02:22 PM
Suggestions for a small room? StoneT Full Range 4 25th October 2007 02:08 AM
Big Room to Small Room CARTRulz Subwoofers 1 21st August 2006 05:59 AM
Small Monitors, Small Room Seth Smith Multi-Way 0 30th January 2006 05:01 AM
Small Room RAYSIMMONS Multi-Way 14 6th February 2003 05:06 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:12 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2