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Old 30th May 2010, 02:16 PM   #21
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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I guess I assume a true midrange really doesnt do much below 200Hz and as you posted none of them show a great response even close to the 5KHz range.
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Old 30th May 2010, 11:43 PM   #22
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the Scanspeak is likely to have the lowest distortion; I wouldn't cross it over any higher than 4Khz though (look at the peaks on the FR graph), and go 2nd order at least, the fibreglass cone won't be a smooth as paper at the top end
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Old 3rd June 2010, 07:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
Thats not a 2way with sub, but a regular 3way But I suppose you are in no hurry, and have plenty time to get it straight
I would choose a single 12" woofer, and go from there ... ehh, thats not true; it would be a 15" or 18"
Yes, a regular 3way it is, but terminology, well, I mix it up regularly and yes, I have plenty of time for this project. The only thing I have in huge supply actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
Im curious, Why do you think any of your mid choices are great up to 5KHz? None of those look like true mid-range drivers to me.
Could you also explain why 5KHz, why not just XO in the 3KHz range?
For most of them I tried to look at the freq. response, and Visaton claim their driver is good up to 5000 Hz. For the SS, I asked the Swedish distributor who said it would be doable.

Why 5000 Hz? Well, I will try to stay out of the ears most sensitive frequencies. It's the sole reason, and if it doesn't work, my plan was to start crossing over lower and lower until it gets right.

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Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
I guess I assume a true midrange really doesnt do much below 200Hz and as you posted none of them show a great response even close to the 5KHz range.
And I who thought that I had found four good candidates

Could anyone please, show me to a real midrange that is good to cross at 5000 Hz so I can try to figure out what to look for? One of the 10"s I am planning to use has its first break up at around 1500 Hz, but would it be worse to cross even higher than say 300 Hz?

I think I will have to go back and start looking for mids again, but what to look for?

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Originally Posted by PeteMcK View Post
the Scanspeak is likely to have the lowest distortion; I wouldn't cross it over any higher than 4Khz though (look at the peaks on the FR graph), and go 2nd order at least, the fibreglass cone won't be a smooth as paper at the top end
I've not bothered that much with crossover issues, more than choosing arbitrary crossing over frequencies. Maybe I should. I planned to do 4th order, but that was me.

Someone mentioned Accuton, yes they are nice but they would be steep.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 09:56 PM   #24
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So I thought I would try your patience with some of the drivers left on my short list as I had them ready.

Aurum Cantus AC-130F1
Aurum cantus
This driver I've read people used at at least up to 5000 Hz. Break up between 5000 - 5700 Hz depending on writer. Can be cured by notchfilter. 3rd order HD at 1800 Hz could be bothersome.
Good review by Zaph as I understood it.

Aurum Cantus AC-165
Aurum cantus
The european distributor told me this would do it.

Peerless 830860
830860 HDS PPB 5″ Midwoofer Peerless Datasheet
Was told by reseller this would do it. I've listened to it, not crossed at 5000 Hz, but it sounded OK to me.

Now I'll start my search anew, and hopefully, someday I will understand what to look for.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 10:44 PM   #25
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggsson View Post

I think I will have to go back and start looking for mids again, but what to look for?



I've not bothered that much with crossover issues, more than choosing arbitrary crossing over frequencies. Maybe I should. I planned to do 4th order, but that was me.
There are no general ideal xo points
Best xo frequency is where the drivers match up acousticly, when using less components

MSH-115 - Monacor high-quality hiFi midrange speaker 50Wmax 8Ω - Europe Audio

MSH-116/4 - Monacor HiFi midrange speaker 4Ω - Europe Audio
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Old 3rd June 2010, 11:23 PM   #26
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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I think your focus on 5KHz isn't all that important.

Its all about the XO, some of the best speakers XO at 2500, 3000, 3500, 2000, etc. all this means is that 5K is far from the magic number and you should focus on finding great sounding drivers then matching them together finding the best XO for them.
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Old 4th June 2010, 06:47 AM   #27
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I think you are correct when saying that XO at 5000 Hz is no sonic nirvana. As I've seen quite frequently persons, that I believe have much more experience and knowledge state that you are not supposed, if you can help it, do XO between 300 - 5000 Hz because that is our hearings most sensitive region, I just thought I would try to avoid that area, so that when my system sounds horrible, I can rule that factor out. I try, with my very limited knowledge, to eliminate as many sources to failure as I can come up with, and then sometimes it feels much safer to hold on to some "stated fact" than to try something you don't really feel you know enough about.

However, those monacor really looked nice, I will take a closer look, and the price was nice as well. I tried to find some other drivers as well, I don't know how nice they are.

For mid drivers in general, when you try to pick nice ones, is the freq. response all to look for? I've seen so many drivers were the manufacturer claims they are flat to X Hz, and the freq. response curve look like the Rocky mountains.
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Old 4th June 2010, 06:10 PM   #28
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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You need to add the TD6H to your list. John at aespeakers.com just released them and if they are even close to the TD12 series performance they they are incredible drivers.

Quote from John...

Quote:
The TD6H is my real favorite. Parameters will be up shortly. It has smooth response to 5KHz, efficiency around 90dB 1W, and tiny inductance of about .15mH. They compare to the Scan Speak Illuminator at over $300. The TD6H however has about 6dB more efficiency, 10mm Xmax vs 6mm, and 1/3 the inductance. You see the same with Seas Excel drivers. The other comparable drivers in terms of low distortion are from Audio Technology and ATC at upwards of $400 each. Even those have much higher and less linear inductance. For a 2way or MTM where you want to cross high to a dome or ribbon tweeter there are really no drivers that can compare.
John hand builds the best drivers I know of!! The measurements and specs kick the crap out of all other popular choices.

Acoustic Elegance • View topic - TD6M - the Lambda Series Little Brother
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Old 4th June 2010, 07:33 PM   #29
Rojoh is offline Rojoh  Norway
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I've been using the Seas L26 as subwoofer in a sub + 2-way sattelite-system. 50-60L sealed works great with this driver. If you want to make things easy, I'd recommend building Mark K's ER18DXT and supplement with the L26-driver using an active XO-solution making the system a semi-active 3-way system. Should make a nice sounding system.

The Seas ER18DXT ported two way

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Last edited by Rojoh; 4th June 2010 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 7th June 2010, 03:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
You need to add the TD6H to your list. John at aespeakers.com just released them and if they are even close to the TD12 series performance they they are incredible drivers.

John hand builds the best drivers I know of!! The measurements and specs kick the crap out of all other popular choices.

Acoustic Elegance • View topic - TD6M - the Lambda Series Little Brother
Yes, the Lamda drivers are interesting. However, I don't know though, if that freq. response would really be considered smooth up to 5000 Hz? And if I choose to XO for a start at 5000 Hz, wouldn't the driver have to perform up to an octave higher than 5000 Hz even if I used a XO with 24 dB/octave as someone mentioned somewhere? And the Xmax is down from the quote, now it's given as 3.3mm, not 10mm.

I've found two other drivers, the TB W4-1337SD and the SEAS Prestige MCA12RC that both should be good to XO at over 5000 Hz according to Zaph and Gravesen respectively. But now I will stop looking for additional drivers because its time to do some simulations I think.

I am however, also awaiting some more info on AE's AV10H sub that looks very promising.
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