Hi,
A few years back I made a proac clone to use as a centre channel. This worked out ok, but I find the sound a little too layed back. And there seems to be something missing.....
Now I want to try another design, preferably a MTM. With a reasonable budget (~$700US not including box) in mind what should I look at? There are so many kits available, I'm not sure where to start.
I also want to approach this with the idea in mind that I will build matching LR speakers later.
Would an Ariel or ME2 be a good idea as a centre??
A few years back I made a proac clone to use as a centre channel. This worked out ok, but I find the sound a little too layed back. And there seems to be something missing.....
Now I want to try another design, preferably a MTM. With a reasonable budget (~$700US not including box) in mind what should I look at? There are so many kits available, I'm not sure where to start.
I also want to approach this with the idea in mind that I will build matching LR speakers later.
Would an Ariel or ME2 be a good idea as a centre??
wilsonj said:
I can think of few speakers in that price range that would produce better vocals; perfect for a center speaker. A tad weak in the midbass (100-400 Hz) range, but fantastic above that. Might even want to build five of them for surround sound
I liked mine so much, I bought a spare set of matched drivers, and tucked them away for the future.
Don't skimp on the tweeter capacitor.
If you agree that the center is dedied to human voices and dialogs, perhaps you will have noted that TV speakers are better than HiFi ones to do this job (you are not obliged to answer)
.You can built Ariel or prestigious speakers to listen some music but for Christ's sake don't spend so much time and money for a center chanel.
BTW if flat MTM is a nice "looking" design for a center chanel it's far to be the best audio solution.
Good luck !
Thanks for your suggestions.
I have already changed the proacs xover b changing the resistor value of the tweeter. I found the suggested one reduced the treble a little too much for my taste. I don't feel I have enough experience to make further changes though...
I have also used quite expensive xover components already.
Lionel, I'm not sure I completely understand your comments. Are you saying I should skimp on the centre speaker? I always thought it was the most important part of a HT speaker system. And equally important to match tonally with at least the other front speakers.
What would you suggest?
I have already changed the proacs xover b changing the resistor value of the tweeter. I found the suggested one reduced the treble a little too much for my taste. I don't feel I have enough experience to make further changes though...
I have also used quite expensive xover components already.
Lionel, I'm not sure I completely understand your comments. Are you saying I should skimp on the centre speaker? I always thought it was the most important part of a HT speaker system. And equally important to match tonally with at least the other front speakers.
What would you suggest?
I can't speak for Lionel but my experience tells me that if you have a good full range, it makes a good centre channel. By this I mean that it may not be necessary to have a multi-way if the centre channel is used only for HT and that you set it to "small" on the receiver so it cuts off the low end. A great deal of the signal comes through the center channel so it is important for it to cover the mids well. You can set your L&R to "big" if they are the units you listen music with and set your rears according to their power handling.
You are using a separate woofer correct?
You are using a separate woofer correct?
Hi Cal, Thanks for your comments. Yes I do have a subwoofer. Recently eqed with REW and a BFD, and intergrates well with the L+R. Its crossed over at 80hz so I really only need a centre that is bass limited. But something that does an excellent job of the vocals/midrange as you suggested. But any ideas?
Planet10, virtual centre!? like a phantom channel? I really don't use the system for critical music listening, only movies so I don't see the advantage of not using a discreet centre. Or am I missing your point?
Cheers
Jamie
Planet10, virtual centre!? like a phantom channel? I really don't use the system for critical music listening, only movies so I don't see the advantage of not using a discreet centre. Or am I missing your point?
Cheers
Jamie
wilsonj said:
In my experience, if you have speakers that image, and no one is seated in a compromised place, a virtual centre outperforms a real one.
Centre channels in movie theatres are a band-aid that lets theatre owners sell tickets to more patrons by putting some of them in less than ideal seats.
When HT came along 0/ you have to recreate the theatre right? 1/ many people had compromised seating arrangements 2/ now a centre speaker, and an extra amp channel could be sold and generate more profit.
Once it was "accepted" that a centre was required it became "common knowledge"
For a real centre to perform close to a virtual one it needs to be exactly the same as the mains, at exactly the same height (which often means trying to occupy the same space as the TV screen) and in the exact same geometrical alignment. Rarely does this happen (i particularily detest the sideways MTMs which are just aweful)
If you find a virtual centre does the job you have more money to spend on movies, and you don't have to find a place to put a real one.
Now if you have a situation where cousin Joe (or heaven forbid you) is sitting off to the side on the couch, you may want a centre channel... in which case Cal's suggestion of a good full-range is a good one -- of course it would also be a good idea to upgrade your mains to match.
dave
"If you agree that the center is dedied to human voices and dialogs, perhaps you will have noted that TV speakers are better than HiFi ones to do this job (you are not obliged to answer) ."
also the box...............well not everybody agree that tv is better box than most speaker boxes.
for practical reason center channel does improve intelligibility on speech, and remove some power load from left and right speakers, so home theater should be build starting from the center channel (my point of view) , not adding it later.
so if you do make a good, and intelligible center channel, you might feel that you other speaker seems "lacking". and diy-ing will continue......
Hartono
also the box...............well not everybody agree that tv is better box than most speaker boxes.
for practical reason center channel does improve intelligibility on speech, and remove some power load from left and right speakers, so home theater should be build starting from the center channel (my point of view) , not adding it later.
so if you do make a good, and intelligible center channel, you might feel that you other speaker seems "lacking". and diy-ing will continue......
Hartono
Center channel..
I use a center channel with 2x Eton 7-360's and a Seas 25TAF/G. Crossover point is right around 3500Hz.
I also use a subwoofer on this channel, as well as surround left and right (all passive).
These drivers in the center are very smooth sounding, and seem to do very well for just about anything I can throw at em.
I use a center channel with 2x Eton 7-360's and a Seas 25TAF/G. Crossover point is right around 3500Hz.
I also use a subwoofer on this channel, as well as surround left and right (all passive).
These drivers in the center are very smooth sounding, and seem to do very well for just about anything I can throw at em.
Hi Dave, thanks for the great explanation. I'm using a Lexicon MC1 with an ME750 amp. I tried turning off the centre, and sure enough when I sit in the sweet spot the imaging is quite good. But as soon as I move off axis the image dissapears.
I think I will have to stick with a seperate centre for now though.
Now, by "full range" are you suggesting a single driver arrangement?? These are certainly intreguing. I like the idea of a single point source.
Is there a design that would be suitable for home theatre? I would eventually replace all 3 front speakers so they are the same.
I think I will have to stick with a seperate centre for now though.
Now, by "full range" are you suggesting a single driver arrangement?? These are certainly intreguing. I like the idea of a single point source.
Is there a design that would be suitable for home theatre? I would eventually replace all 3 front speakers so they are the same.
planet10 said:
Taste? I didnt know I had to eat the too! I'll take the banana pulp please.
Seriousl though, what would be better for my intended use, given that extended bass isn't really required below 80hz, but most important is vocal intelligibility. I don't consider budget an issue with a single driver with no xover, if I plan to build the cabinet myself.
The centre channel amp is an old Sony ES power amp, not great but the main amp is a $5000 2 channel solid state.
The room is medium sized and I can go up to 8.5" in speaker height.
Given these parameters, is their a particular direction you would point me in? Something with an fe127e or fe167e??
Thanks
Jamie
wilsonj said:
What is the big amp?
Is that the height for just the centre or all 3?
The FE127e (modified) is hard to beat in the mids with the right amp... a big SS is not that amp... they will expose all their warts. The 167 gains bass weight and ultimate levels but sactifices a bit in the mid/top.
Both of these are happier with smaller amps. With your amps, the tweaked CSS FR125 likely makes more sense.
With bass only needed to 80 Hz the FE127 or the FR125 will do that in the Fonken or miniOnken. The FR125 gets there or pretty close in a 4.5->10 liter sealed or aperiodic box if smaller is better.
The Jordon JX92 is also probaby worth exploring (i've yet to hear a good one -- ie the 1 set i heard had been abused).
dave
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