I'm looking for the relatively best (I say relative because, I do not wish to spend an exorbitant amount of money on these, ala accuton) midrange driver from 160hz to 800hz. They will be in an open baffle alignment and will be crossed (on the bottom) to a pair of Dayton RSS390HFs and (on the top) a pair of front and rear firing Dayton RS52s. Baffle width will reside in the 16-20 range (including 4" roundover on each side, effective flat panel width will be in the 8-12" range)
The goal for this design is low distortion, dynamic capability (not necessarily SPL speakers, but I'd like the capability if the need arises), and extremely homogeneous power response.
The crossover points are not concrete yet. Once the drivers are in place, I will tweak and manipulate them to perfection.
Reasoning behind 160hz XO point: I do not want to limit the Dayton RSS390HFs bandwidth to less than 2 octaves. They are known for their upper frequency extension and 160hz should be well within their linear limits even in an H-frame. I do not want to go beyond 200hz, as this will be limiting the midranges bandwidth to less than 2 octaves and limit the dipole woofers to flat baffles instead of H/W frames (ie inhibit LF capability)
Reasoning behind 800hz XO point: The wavelengths of sound at this frequency are very long, making baffle placement and proper CTC spacing convenient. I want to limit linear excursion and increase the power handling of the RS52 dome midrange.
I can go with multiple drivers, but cost and proper CTC spacing become serious concerns at this point. Their can only be so many woofers below the midrange and ribbon before the ribbon is above/below ear height, which is of course a major concern relative to the severe vertical off-axis dispersion anomalies related to ribbons.
Sound Signature of midrange: I'm looking for something that tonally matches the drivers in the system (RSS390HF, RS52, ribbon)
Efficiency: As long as the drivers have the dynamic capability (ie get loud without being strained or running into obvious power compression), I am not worried. a Crown XLS602D has enough power to send any midrange into the dark ages
As far as cost, I can justify a pair of W22EXs only if they are a significant improvement over the RS225s in terms of actual sound quality and they (W22EX) will not sound strained even at high output levels. These are the drivers I have considered so far, but am open to many more opinions.
The goal for this design is low distortion, dynamic capability (not necessarily SPL speakers, but I'd like the capability if the need arises), and extremely homogeneous power response.
The crossover points are not concrete yet. Once the drivers are in place, I will tweak and manipulate them to perfection.
Reasoning behind 160hz XO point: I do not want to limit the Dayton RSS390HFs bandwidth to less than 2 octaves. They are known for their upper frequency extension and 160hz should be well within their linear limits even in an H-frame. I do not want to go beyond 200hz, as this will be limiting the midranges bandwidth to less than 2 octaves and limit the dipole woofers to flat baffles instead of H/W frames (ie inhibit LF capability)
Reasoning behind 800hz XO point: The wavelengths of sound at this frequency are very long, making baffle placement and proper CTC spacing convenient. I want to limit linear excursion and increase the power handling of the RS52 dome midrange.
I can go with multiple drivers, but cost and proper CTC spacing become serious concerns at this point. Their can only be so many woofers below the midrange and ribbon before the ribbon is above/below ear height, which is of course a major concern relative to the severe vertical off-axis dispersion anomalies related to ribbons.
Sound Signature of midrange: I'm looking for something that tonally matches the drivers in the system (RSS390HF, RS52, ribbon)
Efficiency: As long as the drivers have the dynamic capability (ie get loud without being strained or running into obvious power compression), I am not worried. a Crown XLS602D has enough power to send any midrange into the dark ages
As far as cost, I can justify a pair of W22EXs only if they are a significant improvement over the RS225s in terms of actual sound quality and they (W22EX) will not sound strained even at high output levels. These are the drivers I have considered so far, but am open to many more opinions.
I find this new Celestion interesting - its a 93db 8" with high Fs and wont do much bass, but that shouldnt matter much in your OB design with subs
http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/tn/detail.asp?ID=16
And this Eminence might be fine too
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=290-516
And its "Hemp" cone leads us to the shores of ToneTubby
http://www.tonetubby.com/speaker.htm
http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/tn/detail.asp?ID=16
And this Eminence might be fine too
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=290-516
And its "Hemp" cone leads us to the shores of ToneTubby
http://www.tonetubby.com/speaker.htm
W22EX is pretty much as good as it gets on that frequencyrange. Efficiency doesn't collapse walls but distorsion is very low. What's the use of high efficiency if distorsion turns it into noise. Well, perhaps if you like to use small power valveamps or such. But with those low distorsion isn't required since they deliberately color the sound before signal reaches speakers.
Jussi
Jussi
High Sd and Fs
Hello,
I would recommend nearly any well-built pro-sound woofer, AS LARGE AS CAN FIT on the baffle, so 10" or 12". The large Sd will ensure dynamic capability with low distortion (due to low excursion). A high Fs implies low mass and high efficiency, both desirable for a midwoofer. Something like:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-678
The neodymium magnet assures there's a minimum of clutter BEHIND the cone.
I would rule out any 8" - simply as if you're using a larger baffle, there's no reason to limit yourself to a smaller driver. In this case, bigger is better. Recent research (German, I believe) also suggests that the driver should take up nearly as much of the baffle as possible - so a 6" driver on a 10" or 12" baffle would not be ideal...
Just my $0.02!
cheers,
-Tal
Hello,
I would recommend nearly any well-built pro-sound woofer, AS LARGE AS CAN FIT on the baffle, so 10" or 12". The large Sd will ensure dynamic capability with low distortion (due to low excursion). A high Fs implies low mass and high efficiency, both desirable for a midwoofer. Something like:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-678
The neodymium magnet assures there's a minimum of clutter BEHIND the cone.
I would rule out any 8" - simply as if you're using a larger baffle, there's no reason to limit yourself to a smaller driver. In this case, bigger is better. Recent research (German, I believe) also suggests that the driver should take up nearly as much of the baffle as possible - so a 6" driver on a 10" or 12" baffle would not be ideal...
Just my $0.02!
cheers,
-Tal
Re: High Sd and Fs
I may have to disagree with your assumption that...bigger is always better. Although the 10 or 12 may have higher power handling, higher efficiency, greater dynamic capability, and MAYBE lower non-linear distortion...its power response would not be homogeneous up to 800hz and its linear distortion would probably suffer. I'd have to see off-axis plots for the larger drivers.
In regards to the pro-sound drivers, are you sure the paper cone would match tonally with the detailed nature of a ribbon and aluminum midrange? Displacement is also a serious factor as between 70 and 90 cubic centimeters of linear displacement is required at 160hz.
Is there really nothing better than the W22EX? How does the W18E compare to it in terms of linear distortion and sound quality? Is the RS225 close?
taloyd said:
I may have to disagree with your assumption that...bigger is always better. Although the 10 or 12 may have higher power handling, higher efficiency, greater dynamic capability, and MAYBE lower non-linear distortion...its power response would not be homogeneous up to 800hz and its linear distortion would probably suffer. I'd have to see off-axis plots for the larger drivers.
In regards to the pro-sound drivers, are you sure the paper cone would match tonally with the detailed nature of a ribbon and aluminum midrange? Displacement is also a serious factor as between 70 and 90 cubic centimeters of linear displacement is required at 160hz.
Is there really nothing better than the W22EX? How does the W18E compare to it in terms of linear distortion and sound quality? Is the RS225 close?
Try Here;
http://www.tonetubby.com/speaker.htm
Lynn Olsen has done all the testing on the 12" Alnico woofer. It looks absolutely amazing! You can find his testing on Nutshell.
The Diaphram is made of Hemp and does not have the typical peaks beyond 1kHz.
I'll bet the 10 incher is quite similar in it's response. It's worth a look anyway.
Good Luck
http://www.tonetubby.com/speaker.htm
Lynn Olsen has done all the testing on the 12" Alnico woofer. It looks absolutely amazing! You can find his testing on Nutshell.
The Diaphram is made of Hemp and does not have the typical peaks beyond 1kHz.
I'll bet the 10 incher is quite similar in it's response. It's worth a look anyway.
Good Luck
I am running Open baffle fullrange crossing over at 200 and 8000.
http://www.bastanis.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=44&osCsid=9725cd4e096f0abb7e2025f41953a3a3
These give you plenty of dynamics over the whole range.
You won't have a crossover point in a sensitive area.
These run at 98/db SPL without any filter and a T-Amp easily manages to drive it!
Cheers
http://www.bastanis.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=44&osCsid=9725cd4e096f0abb7e2025f41953a3a3
These give you plenty of dynamics over the whole range.
You won't have a crossover point in a sensitive area.
These run at 98/db SPL without any filter and a T-Amp easily manages to drive it!
Cheers
MarkK tested the distortion characteristics of the RS225 and found that it performed very well under 1kHz. I think that for the band you are operating it in, you will not see a significant improvement with the W22, certainly not enough to justify the cost difference. I personally faced the same dilemna and ended up getting the RS225-4s. Now to find a good midrange... HiVi DMN or RS52?
David
David
Hi,
Just to say, a 12" will be fine to 800Hz in terms of off-axis response in most cases.
The Eminence Deffinimax 12" HO is absolutely stunning in this range (and lower) but it is probably more than the W22's! Still, if it is anything to go by, try the more affordable Eminence drivers and you could be pleasantly surprised. Dynamic and clean are the operative words.
Just to say, a 12" will be fine to 800Hz in terms of off-axis response in most cases.
The Eminence Deffinimax 12" HO is absolutely stunning in this range (and lower) but it is probably more than the W22's! Still, if it is anything to go by, try the more affordable Eminence drivers and you could be pleasantly surprised. Dynamic and clean are the operative words.
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