Sorry if this is in the wrong thread.
So I have a 4ohm tweeter and an 8ohm mid-range.
At 4 ohms the 2 caps I'm using give me the right frequency and conveniently enough at 8ohms the midrange is almost exactly where I'd want it.
So I figure why bother buying 2x the parts and muddling up simplicity?
My problem though is since they are in series the total impedance is something like 11.7 ohms (I’ll put the 6" driver in parallel so it lands about 4 in total, but anyway)
I'm not sure how this will change the way the caps react to the tweeter. If the first driver adds something to it then I would have something like 2 kHz in the midrange and then the tweeter's new found 11ohms would be something like... 700-800 Hz
. Since it’s impossible for it to go lower than a certain point I don't see it as a problem but still, it’s not something I can see in my head or on paper.
If anyone has any thoughts it would be appreciated.
So I have a 4ohm tweeter and an 8ohm mid-range.
At 4 ohms the 2 caps I'm using give me the right frequency and conveniently enough at 8ohms the midrange is almost exactly where I'd want it.
So I figure why bother buying 2x the parts and muddling up simplicity?
My problem though is since they are in series the total impedance is something like 11.7 ohms (I’ll put the 6" driver in parallel so it lands about 4 in total, but anyway)
I'm not sure how this will change the way the caps react to the tweeter. If the first driver adds something to it then I would have something like 2 kHz in the midrange and then the tweeter's new found 11ohms would be something like... 700-800 Hz
. Since it’s impossible for it to go lower than a certain point I don't see it as a problem but still, it’s not something I can see in my head or on paper.If anyone has any thoughts it would be appreciated.
haha yah it wasn't easy to describe.
basicly..
two speakers are in parallel and there is a cap at the begining
----Capacitor---- 3" driver ------ tweeter
11.5uf 8ohm 4ohm
After the signal passes the first driver will it be permanently cut off at 2 khz or will the second driver have the added impedance. Normally the 4ohm tweeter will cut around 3 khz, well thats what the calculation says, but if its in series will it add the first driver's impedance on and not be calculated for 4ohms but for 10 ohms?
If the second driver does add up then I can use a spare 4.7uf cap to cut it off at about 3.3 khz and that will be that.
basicly..
two speakers are in parallel and there is a cap at the begining
----Capacitor---- 3" driver ------ tweeter
11.5uf 8ohm 4ohm
After the signal passes the first driver will it be permanently cut off at 2 khz or will the second driver have the added impedance. Normally the 4ohm tweeter will cut around 3 khz, well thats what the calculation says, but if its in series will it add the first driver's impedance on and not be calculated for 4ohms but for 10 ohms?
If the second driver does add up then I can use a spare 4.7uf cap to cut it off at about 3.3 khz and that will be that.
You still haven't said what your aim is.
Are you trying to cut the bass from both speakers and have them both produce the higher frequencies? I can't think why you would want to but that is what your diagram is showing.
Are you looking to produce a conventional 2 way speaker where the frequencies are split between each driver?
Are you trying to run the mid/bass 'full range' without a crossover ..... with the tweeter supporting your treble output. (The lower frequencies being blocked by the capacitor)?
Tell us more.
Here's a useful link if you are trying build a conventional crossover. It won't be the last word in accuracy but will be useful anyhow.
http://www.lalena.com/Audio/Calculator/XOver/
Are you trying to cut the bass from both speakers and have them both produce the higher frequencies? I can't think why you would want to but that is what your diagram is showing.
Are you looking to produce a conventional 2 way speaker where the frequencies are split between each driver?
Are you trying to run the mid/bass 'full range' without a crossover ..... with the tweeter supporting your treble output. (The lower frequencies being blocked by the capacitor)?
Tell us more.
Here's a useful link if you are trying build a conventional crossover. It won't be the last word in accuracy but will be useful anyhow.
http://www.lalena.com/Audio/Calculator/XOver/
oh okay if its a question purpose.
I want to simply add a 3" driver to the high end and see if my tweeter or 5.5" midrange are missing things. Sometimes theres something missing in the upper middle and I think its because the tweeter is cut off a little too low for its own good.
If it yields no worthwhile results then i'll change the midrange caps since they're kinda cheapie temp use.
i'm tryn to cut bass out of both drivers while using the original caps setup for the tweeter.
if there is a cap between the tweeter and the midrange, do I calculate the Xover frequency for the tweeter alone or do I take the midrange into account.
I want to simply add a 3" driver to the high end and see if my tweeter or 5.5" midrange are missing things. Sometimes theres something missing in the upper middle and I think its because the tweeter is cut off a little too low for its own good.
If it yields no worthwhile results then i'll change the midrange caps since they're kinda cheapie temp use.
i'm tryn to cut bass out of both drivers while using the original caps setup for the tweeter.
if there is a cap between the tweeter and the midrange, do I calculate the Xover frequency for the tweeter alone or do I take the midrange into account.
I don't think that you understand the complexity of your idea. It's great that you are experimenting but you need to understand how a crossover works a little better before you mess with it like you are planning.
A basic understanding is a necessity to protect your amplifier and speakers!!
Yet again we are left with very little relevant information from you.
What speakers are they????
Is your setup currently a 3 way? (You mention 'cutting' bass but have not mentioned a bass driver.)
Are you just trying to add an extra speaker to a 2/3way setup? 4 way speakers are uncommon because of their crossover complexity and expense.
Are you saying that you want to add a 3" driver 'between' the mid and treble? This is IMO an unnecessary can of worms. The added complexity of the necessarily redesigned crossover will only make things worse. It is not as simple as you think.
(Or .... are you saying that the tweeter does not reach up to 20Khz?)
If you feel that something is missing .......
Tell us more about your speakers and what you think may be missing. Your amp and source may be part of the problem too so list them as well.
Have you got access to any kind of equalizer? These are not exactly HiFi but are useful as a cheap way to find out how you would like the frequency response to be. Maybe a little treble boost would give you the extra detail you like? It's all a matter of personal taste.
It may be better to find a better mid and/or tweeter that could do a good job with the current crossover.
Try this link for crossover information. I'm sure that there are better sites out there but I can't find my bookmarks right now: http://www.lalena.com/Audio/FAQ/XOver/
Maybe someone can help you if we have the whole picture
A basic understanding is a necessity to protect your amplifier and speakers!!
Yet again we are left with very little relevant information from you.
What speakers are they????
Is your setup currently a 3 way? (You mention 'cutting' bass but have not mentioned a bass driver.)
Are you just trying to add an extra speaker to a 2/3way setup? 4 way speakers are uncommon because of their crossover complexity and expense.
Adrianb said:
Are you saying that you want to add a 3" driver 'between' the mid and treble? This is IMO an unnecessary can of worms. The added complexity of the necessarily redesigned crossover will only make things worse. It is not as simple as you think.
(Or .... are you saying that the tweeter does not reach up to 20Khz?)
If you feel that something is missing .......
Tell us more about your speakers and what you think may be missing. Your amp and source may be part of the problem too so list them as well.
Have you got access to any kind of equalizer? These are not exactly HiFi but are useful as a cheap way to find out how you would like the frequency response to be. Maybe a little treble boost would give you the extra detail you like? It's all a matter of personal taste.
It may be better to find a better mid and/or tweeter that could do a good job with the current crossover.
Try this link for crossover information. I'm sure that there are better sites out there but I can't find my bookmarks right now: http://www.lalena.com/Audio/FAQ/XOver/
Maybe someone can help you if we have the whole picture
Looks like Adrianb has a 2-way and he want to add a 3" midrange to see if he's missing anything between the 2 other speakers.
Some questions:
1) Did you build the speaker you are thinking of altering yourself, or is it a bought one?
2) If it's a bought one, what type of speaker is it?
3) If it's one you built yourself, what drivers are in it?
My guess is that you're about to break a perfectly good speaker trying to look for something that isn't there...but I could be wrong.
Some questions:
1) Did you build the speaker you are thinking of altering yourself, or is it a bought one?
2) If it's a bought one, what type of speaker is it?
3) If it's one you built yourself, what drivers are in it?
My guess is that you're about to break a perfectly good speaker trying to look for something that isn't there...but I could be wrong.
haha wow someone understood
yes i have a 2way, yes i built it myself so i don't care what i drill into.
it is a biamped speaker.
whats in the high is a dome tweeter and a 5.5" mid range, just parts i have cherry picked form other speakers.
Since these two drivers are in parallel I want to see what else I can get in there without havn the amp run at like 1ohm haha. right now its something like 2.4 and I'm only gettn away with it because the drivers dont do low frequency and dont pull much power. I wanted to avoid series wiring from the start but I'd like to just see if theres much else there. if there is anything missing in the mid-upper then I can hunt down a different tweeter or replace the midrange / midrange caps.
I dont see why much else matters. I just want to know what impedance should be taken into account (in a series circuit) when figuring out what cap value to pick because 2ohms swings it off by a huge amount. Like I said, at 8ohms the the same cap is 1000 hz lower than a speaker at 4ohms.
Since I can't get that idea even considered I almost wish this thread would just be closed. I understand how to restrain a driver to a certain frequency range. I just wanted one thing answered, the rest of the speaker information is moot. I figured a picture would make someone stand up and shout 'hey you're doing it wrong' or point out the flaw or bizarre nature of how its layed out but I didn't So I dunno what else to say. Thanks for the time at least.
yes i have a 2way, yes i built it myself so i don't care what i drill into.
it is a biamped speaker.
whats in the high is a dome tweeter and a 5.5" mid range, just parts i have cherry picked form other speakers.
Since these two drivers are in parallel I want to see what else I can get in there without havn the amp run at like 1ohm haha. right now its something like 2.4 and I'm only gettn away with it because the drivers dont do low frequency and dont pull much power. I wanted to avoid series wiring from the start but I'd like to just see if theres much else there. if there is anything missing in the mid-upper then I can hunt down a different tweeter or replace the midrange / midrange caps.
I dont see why much else matters. I just want to know what impedance should be taken into account (in a series circuit) when figuring out what cap value to pick because 2ohms swings it off by a huge amount. Like I said, at 8ohms the the same cap is 1000 hz lower than a speaker at 4ohms.
Since I can't get that idea even considered I almost wish this thread would just be closed. I understand how to restrain a driver to a certain frequency range. I just wanted one thing answered, the rest of the speaker information is moot. I figured a picture would make someone stand up and shout 'hey you're doing it wrong' or point out the flaw or bizarre nature of how its layed out but I didn't So I dunno what else to say. Thanks for the time at least.
Adrianb said:
First up Adrianb, don't worry about someone saying "it's wrong", as probably half the people who read this won't have done as much. The people who post replies, however, want more info so that we can 1) understand and 2) help. If you're doing it differently, so what?
As the speakers are cherry-picked, can you possibly take a photo of the front and back of both your dome, the 5.5" and the 3"? And, if you can, a picture of the crossover that you currently use? This is because I am having a lot of trouble understanding how you have set it up from your posts - and they say "a picture is worth a thousand words" (I'd like to know who they are...
). Also, if you have a multimeter, are you able to measure the resistance of all three of your drivers? I'd guess that your tweeter is 4ohms (nominal), your 3" is 8ohms (nominal) and your 5.5" is 8ohms (nominal), but it would be a help if you are able to provide the resting resistance as well.
My guess would be, now, that you may be missing something from the upper midrange. But without further info I won't be able to give any more (useful) advice - other than "be good to your mother"...
.Thank you for that. I really just wanted that number and not much else. It will help me figure out calculations for related things in the future.
After playing around with this 3", I've put it in series with the mid range and in series with the tweeter and I can't find much to change or worth changing. The driver was just harsh and gave me fatigue. It didn't expose much and I think what needs to be done is lower the midrange crossover or find a 4th driver like an 8" or 10" to complete the image from 300hz to 800hz. If I remember correctly the midrange is cut at 500hz. it should be able to go as low as 300hz without getting weird.
I did however find it more worthwhile to cut the dust cover off this 15" woofer and re-adjust the centre/ spray a bit of nu-trol down the voice coil to lubricate it, it made the driver much more nimble. Might be worth it to do to the midrange. I'll wait a day for it to 'burn in' and settle before seeing if its worth doing to anything else because its definately louder than the other woofer now and before it was much quieter.
sorry topic might be changing here, but is there any sort of paint or spray on material you guys can recommend to stiffen up a driver cone?
I more or less ignore a good number of drivers in the garage because they wobble like xerox paper.
Sorry if i'm not interested in talkn' about what i'm building but I usually don't use or make stuff people respond to (brand names and whatever)
for anyone interested tho
dome is out of an Image (??yr) 2-way speaker. It's fairly clear and handles he high end like a champ (until I replace it, I was using an old Mission dome just like it before)
midrange is from a late 80's/90's Sony speaker. I like it because it has a deep sound. A slight trade off for less upfront detail, much smoother on the ears.
15" woofer is out of some 70's Fisher speakers. It is a good speaker but I'd kill to steal the 15's out of one of my dad's mach2 speakers. Realistic made some nice stuff back in the day.
After playing around with this 3", I've put it in series with the mid range and in series with the tweeter and I can't find much to change or worth changing. The driver was just harsh and gave me fatigue. It didn't expose much and I think what needs to be done is lower the midrange crossover or find a 4th driver like an 8" or 10" to complete the image from 300hz to 800hz. If I remember correctly the midrange is cut at 500hz. it should be able to go as low as 300hz without getting weird.
I did however find it more worthwhile to cut the dust cover off this 15" woofer and re-adjust the centre/ spray a bit of nu-trol down the voice coil to lubricate it, it made the driver much more nimble. Might be worth it to do to the midrange. I'll wait a day for it to 'burn in' and settle before seeing if its worth doing to anything else because its definately louder than the other woofer now and before it was much quieter.
sorry topic might be changing here, but is there any sort of paint or spray on material you guys can recommend to stiffen up a driver cone?
I more or less ignore a good number of drivers in the garage because they wobble like xerox paper.
Sorry if i'm not interested in talkn' about what i'm building but I usually don't use or make stuff people respond to (brand names and whatever)
for anyone interested tho
dome is out of an Image (??yr) 2-way speaker. It's fairly clear and handles he high end like a champ (until I replace it, I was using an old Mission dome just like it before)
midrange is from a late 80's/90's Sony speaker. I like it because it has a deep sound. A slight trade off for less upfront detail, much smoother on the ears.
15" woofer is out of some 70's Fisher speakers. It is a good speaker but I'd kill to steal the 15's out of one of my dad's mach2 speakers. Realistic made some nice stuff back in the day.
I didnt have to lubricate the coil. it was more of a cleaning sollution to get any **** out or free it up. They are pretty old and I got them for free like most other stuff I pickup at garage sales. A business card is about the right clearance space on most coils so I use that to rub out grit.
They sound great but my little Rotel rx-850 is getting strange the left side and I really dont feel like replacing all the pots (its impossible to clean some of them). I need to find a new subwoofer amp cuz this one was nice and small and have some real power, just no high end haha
They sound great but my little Rotel rx-850 is getting strange the left side and I really dont feel like replacing all the pots (its impossible to clean some of them). I need to find a new subwoofer amp cuz this one was nice and small and have some real power, just no high end haha
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