I've recently removed a bunch of my car audio stuff and I have a set of high end polk components (SR 6500's) and was wondering if there was something inherently bad about putting driver's designed for car audio into a home audio speaker. I'm thinking about building a set of smaller speakers with these. I love the sq from them in my car and figured I shouldn't let them go to waste. Here's a link to the specs http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/whitepapers/sr6500.pdf
It's the last page in the pdf. Thanks for the help.
It's the last page in the pdf. Thanks for the help.
Hi,
OK. The longer answer is they need a very large box in relation to
the driver size. The crossover must be reworked due to various
cabinet effects and free space, not half space mounting.
An open backed box will have no bass.
60L litre enclosure for an 11L Vas driver ? stupid ........
(all tunings of said 60L will have horrible uncontrolled bass)
Starting off with a 60Hz Fs driver ?
Not a particular good idea unless a subwoofer is involved.
Starting off with a 0.65 Qts driver ?
Not a good idea full stop for normal box speakers.
The Polks are designed for purpose and no doubt they work well
when used for that purpose. The short answer is still they are
not suitable for the described application, a small box speaker.
/sreten.
OK. The longer answer is they need a very large box in relation to
the driver size. The crossover must be reworked due to various
cabinet effects and free space, not half space mounting.
An open backed box will have no bass.
60L litre enclosure for an 11L Vas driver ? stupid ........
(all tunings of said 60L will have horrible uncontrolled bass)
Starting off with a 60Hz Fs driver ?
Not a particular good idea unless a subwoofer is involved.
Starting off with a 0.65 Qts driver ?
Not a good idea full stop for normal box speakers.
The Polks are designed for purpose and no doubt they work well
when used for that purpose. The short answer is still they are
not suitable for the described application, a small box speaker.
/sreten.Attachments
The realm of home speakers is new to me. I really got into headphones for a while and car audio was the next step. So as far as home speakers go it's new territory. I haven't checked the amp in my receiver yet, but I've entertained the idea of using a converter to just power what was my car audio amp. I splurged for a nice audison amp (my car got totalled which is why I was forced to take my stuff out) and it sounded amazing in my car, so that was the sound I fell in love with. With that in mind, the speakers are 4 ohms, so nothing too weird to drive, but none the less I feel as though I'll get better sound quality withe car amp than my Yahama receiver.
Anyways, as far as re-working the crossover, I did buy them as components so there is a passive crossover that I assume is tuned for open baffle. Like I said this is my first dappling in diy home audio, but I really enjoyed installing the car stuff. I had the drivers in an 05 mustang whic had 8 inch subs in the door but I made an mdf ring to allow the 6.5 inch woofers to fit. The subs were in a small enclosure so I drilled a ton of holes in the back of it to simulate an open baffle. I was new to it all so I had them in there for a while w/o the holes (i.e. sealed) and while it sounded fine, it did seem a bit muffled. The holes definitelely helped to bring out the spectacular soundstage that I love about this set.
So my questions... tl? mltl? f3? Half space mounting? Sorry for the questions but I just am not familliar with it all. I've toyed around with some speaker design programs, but after inputting the driver specs the box they come up with is about the size of any bookshelf box, which after reading everyone's advice sounds like its way too small.
Wall mounting is beyond what I have in mind, as far as complexity goes, but what I want to do is to be able to use these speakers now, untill in another year or two I get them back into a car. Despite that I have no qualms about putting the time and effort into creating the right mounting solution for them. The drivers have a suprising amount of bass; I have entertained the idea of buying an internal amp for the sub I also took out (Saes Lotus 12 inch) but am perfectly happy with just the components. I do not listen to much rap so my needs wouldn't necessarily require a sub, but obviously it would never hurt. Like I said earlier the strengths of this set is an amazing tweeter which provides clarity and the imaging is top notch as well.
So, sorry if I'm rambling, but with the above in mind I've heard a number of different suggestions and untill I start toying with it all myself I guess I wont be able to decide, but I guess it comes down to a complete open baffle or large box in relation to the driver size. Any advice with the above in mind?
Anyways, as far as re-working the crossover, I did buy them as components so there is a passive crossover that I assume is tuned for open baffle. Like I said this is my first dappling in diy home audio, but I really enjoyed installing the car stuff. I had the drivers in an 05 mustang whic had 8 inch subs in the door but I made an mdf ring to allow the 6.5 inch woofers to fit. The subs were in a small enclosure so I drilled a ton of holes in the back of it to simulate an open baffle. I was new to it all so I had them in there for a while w/o the holes (i.e. sealed) and while it sounded fine, it did seem a bit muffled. The holes definitelely helped to bring out the spectacular soundstage that I love about this set.
So my questions... tl? mltl? f3? Half space mounting? Sorry for the questions but I just am not familliar with it all. I've toyed around with some speaker design programs, but after inputting the driver specs the box they come up with is about the size of any bookshelf box, which after reading everyone's advice sounds like its way too small.
Wall mounting is beyond what I have in mind, as far as complexity goes, but what I want to do is to be able to use these speakers now, untill in another year or two I get them back into a car. Despite that I have no qualms about putting the time and effort into creating the right mounting solution for them. The drivers have a suprising amount of bass; I have entertained the idea of buying an internal amp for the sub I also took out (Saes Lotus 12 inch) but am perfectly happy with just the components. I do not listen to much rap so my needs wouldn't necessarily require a sub, but obviously it would never hurt. Like I said earlier the strengths of this set is an amazing tweeter which provides clarity and the imaging is top notch as well.
So, sorry if I'm rambling, but with the above in mind I've heard a number of different suggestions and untill I start toying with it all myself I guess I wont be able to decide, but I guess it comes down to a complete open baffle or large box in relation to the driver size. Any advice with the above in mind?
Hi,
I've reread the white paper and the 30 degree off axis dip is unusual.
Box speakers of any sort are out - needs a redesigned crossover.
The problem with your box is not its volume - it is the effects of
putting the drivers in a box rather than flush in a large surface.
Complex boxes e.g. TLs are not good if you want to use them with
another driver, the TS parameters are not common for hi-fi drivers.
Due to the drivers low Vas big boxes are a waste of time,
though they could be used with more suitable drivers later on.
Using your car amplifiers does not sound like a good idea.
TBH if they are destined to be going back into a car this is their destiny.
Open baffle will wotk but you will get a low mid hump and lose bass.
http://www.rjbaudio.com/AlpheusMkII/alpheusmkii.html
Uses a similar tweeter. It is worth the time and effort to build properly.
Or this : http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html
Or if you just want some very good speakers for your reciever and do
not plan to use a subwoofer build the floorstanding version of this :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html
or this :
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PL18XT.htm
choices ..... choices .....
/sreten.
I've reread the white paper and the 30 degree off axis dip is unusual.
Box speakers of any sort are out - needs a redesigned crossover.
The problem with your box is not its volume - it is the effects of
putting the drivers in a box rather than flush in a large surface.
Complex boxes e.g. TLs are not good if you want to use them with
another driver, the TS parameters are not common for hi-fi drivers.
Due to the drivers low Vas big boxes are a waste of time,
though they could be used with more suitable drivers later on.
Using your car amplifiers does not sound like a good idea.
TBH if they are destined to be going back into a car this is their destiny.
Open baffle will wotk but you will get a low mid hump and lose bass.
http://www.rjbaudio.com/AlpheusMkII/alpheusmkii.html
Uses a similar tweeter. It is worth the time and effort to build properly.
Or this : http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html
Or if you just want some very good speakers for your reciever and do
not plan to use a subwoofer build the floorstanding version of this :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html
or this :
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PL18XT.htm
choices ..... choices .....
/sreten.
sreten said:...is they need a very large box in relation to
the driver size. The crossover must be reworked due to various
cabinet effects and free space, not half space mounting.
An open backed box will have no bass.
60L litre enclosure for an 11L Vas driver ? stupid ........
(all tunings of said 60L will have horrible uncontrolled bass)
Starting off with a 60Hz Fs driver ?
Not a particular good idea unless a subwoofer is involved.
Starting off with a 0.65 Qts driver ?
Not a good idea full stop for normal box speakers.
60 litres is not that big - it's only 8"x12"x40" internal volume. Hugh.
Re-work the crossover or build a totally new one either for these drivers (already have) or buy new ones (more expense) + crossover components.
Open back will yield MORE bass than IB. Not much in the way of true bass from a 6.5" driver anyhow.
Stupid? Really? It's likely to sound as good or better than a large portion of the commercially available speakers in the lower price range, since they utilize the same peaked bass response.
Start with 60Hz Fs and .65 Qts? I started with a driver that's Qts is 1.76, it's Fs is 103Hz and it's Vas is 13 litres. Put this in a open backed box 44 litres, with exceptional results. Enough bass to listen to on thier own, or fill in with sub woofer.
This being a DIY forum, people should be encouraged to experiment with the things they have. Not everyone can afford to spend two weeks wages on drivers and crossover componets, and shouldn't be brow-beaten into thinking that only the best drivers will give good results.
which of this will do for boxless:
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
MJL21193 said:
60 litres is not that big - it's only 8"x12"x40" internal volume. Hugh.
its very big when around 10L will do.
Re-work the crossover or build a totally new one either for these drivers (already have) or buy new ones (more expense) + crossover components.
thats is the point, as they will go back in a car, ideally this would be avoided.
Open back will yield MORE bass than IB. Not much in the way of true bass from a 6.5" driver anyhow.
open back is folded open baffle, just a question of semantics.
Stupid? Really? It's likely to sound as good or better than a large portion of the commercially available speakers in the lower price range, since they utilize the same peaked bass response.
IMO a 60L reflexed box means you do not understand what you are doing.
Start with 60Hz Fs and .65 Qts? I started with a driver that's Qts is 1.76, it's Fs is 103Hz and it's Vas is 13 litres. Put this in a open backed box 44 litres, with exceptional results. Enough bass to listen to on thier own, or fill in with sub woofer.
Yes you can do this, the question is why ?
You say exceptional, technically speaking its not.
This being a DIY forum, people should be encouraged to experiment with the things they have. Not everyone can afford to spend two weeks wages on drivers and crossover componets, and shouldn't be brow-beaten into thinking that only the best drivers will give good results.
Browbeating ? pot calling the kettle black methinks .....
What you have done and what this guy seems to want are very different.
Not everyone wants to spend weeks of effort in building something only to
be dissapointed. I give well informed technical advice, people can take it
or leave it. Its usually those that would like to think they know what they
are doing who want to leave it.
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