Standmount speaker by SS 18W85x5 or Seas W18E001

[alspe]

Hi,

does anyone have idea of large standmount speaker with powerful bass response? Cabinet could be 400x230x300 mm (outer) and so inner volume would be 14-17 liters. May a bit smaller would be nice.
Can we but Scan Speak 18W8545/8535 or Seas Excel W18e001/W18ex001 to such enclosure? Bass response must be powerful, clean and not boomy. Of course smaller cabinet loses in 20-40 Hz frequensies, but powerful 35 - 80 Hz will do. Fast transients and dynamics are number one.

Do you prefer soft dome or ribbon tweeter if I want smooth and and no so bright treble?

[Jay_WJ]

Either driver will be one of the best possible choices for a bookshelf 2-way. So the choice would depend on your personal preference.

The sound characteristic of a tweeter does not depend solely on its diaphragm material but on each individual driver design. In your case (if you like laid-back, not so bright sound), I would use Vifa XT25TG c/o'ed at around 2000 - 2200 Hz acoustic LR4.

[CeramicMan]

I presume you're talking about a ported design? Sealed would be out of the question if you want powerful bass from such a small box.

This might be a handy idea: if you use a program like Subsim, switch on the "group delay" plot and manually tune the port and box size to minimize it. Most importantly: ensure that the group delay has a flat or negative slope throughout the frequency range.

A positive-going slope indicates unwanted boominess, and if you do it correctly, you may find that box is much smaller than the 'recommended' size and that the tuning frequency is higher. It's ironic because there may be a mid-bass peak, but the transient response should be fast and 'punchy'.

[DSP_Geek]

Originally posted by Jay_WJ
Either driver will be one of the best possible choices for a bookshelf 2-way. So the choice would depend on your personal preference.

The sound characteristic of a tweeter does not depend solely on its diaphragm material but on each individual driver design. In your case (if you like laid-back, not so bright sound), I would use Vifa XT25TG c/o'ed at around 2000 - 2200 Hz acoustic LR4.

You might not want to cross the W18 magnesium over that high, since the 4.2 kHz peak will be noticeable even if the crossover uses LR4 alignments. A notch filter could sort that out, but then you still have to contend with the 3rd harmonic distortion peak at about 1.4 kHz. That woofer really wants LR4 at 1.4 kHz max.

[Jay_WJ]

Originally posted by DSP_Geek


You might not want to cross the W18 magnesium over that high, since the 4.2 kHz peak will be noticeable even if the crossover uses LR4 alignments. A notch filter could sort that out, but then you still have to contend with the 3rd harmonic distortion peak at about 1.4 kHz. That woofer really wants LR4 at 1.4 kHz max.

You're right if you are a perfectionist. Its high 3rd order harmonic distortion at 1.6kHz is directly related to its break up node at 4.8 kHz and so is its high 5th order harmonics at around 1kHz. So you have to make a compromise to use this driver. As you said, probably best thing to do is to notch out the break up and use a lowest possible XO point. But note that very few tweeters can handle a 1.4kHz XO point---some people even say that no 1" tweeter can do this in a usual LR4 design.

If the OP is a perfectionist, he'd be better off with the more expensive SS. But if he can make a compromise, he'll be happy with the Seas' excellent bass and midbass performance.

[alspe]

Thank you for answering.

I simulated little with WinISD. There is 2 floorstandings and 2 bookshelfs. Another bookshelf is closed (SS 18W8535). Floorstanding Seas Excel is Troels's TJL2W (modified tuning) ja floorstanding SS is ProAc2.5 (the boomy one :-) ).





Floorstanding is a possible for me if there's a major benefit. We must say that room gains bass response. I do not use subwoofer and room is quite big, about 25-30 m2.

What can we say about these pictures? SS8535 in closed 16 liters isn't bad, but it is not so powerful. TJL2W goes REALLY deep but group delay is bigger than others. Big box = slow bass?
18W8545 is 16 l reflex is more powerful between 45-200 Hz than TJL2W. Does it make sound more "bodied" or strong?
ProAc2.5 is very powerful. It may not fit close to the walls and in concrete apartment?

Do you think that Seas excel would be much better in some way? It cost 70 € more per speaker (than 8545) and also has major pump in 4 kHz or so. Does SS's loses in midrange clarity or something like that?

[alspe]

Hey again.

I've thought about these expensive DIY speakers and if they are worth building and worth money? If we say that drivers and components cost 500-600 € (600-750 USD) do we get much better speaker than some brand speakers from shop? Cabinet takes little money but I like building. How do you compare Scan Speak 18W8545 + good treble with decent project (Troels Gravesen / Tony Gee / Zaph Audio) to the brand speaker with same amount of money?

I do not know which brands are "in" there in USA but here in Europe with 600-700 € we could buy Epos M12.2, B&W CM1, Quad 12L2 and so on. Those all are fine speakers. But what I get more if I build speakers that I'm thinking about? Do anyone have experiences?

[Jay_WJ]

Originally posted by alspe
I do not know which brands are "in" there in USA but here in Europe with 600-700 € we could buy Epos M12.2, B&W CM1, Quad 12L2 and so on. Those all are fine speakers. But what I get more if I build speakers that I'm thinking about? Do anyone have experiences?

When I first replied, I thought you're considering the SS 8531. BTW, if you need a powerful bass in rather small a vented box, the 8535 is not appropriate because of its high Qts. The 8545 or 8545K should be better.

I would choose the SS 8545 over the W18 magnesium. The W18's break up node will be difficult to work with---a notch filter alone at the fundamental breakup point will not necessarily help reduce the large higher order harmonics at lower frequencies. IMO, the XT25 will not only be a great match with the 8545 but also satisfy your taste.

And if you want higher quality speakers with your budget, DIY is worth trying. I'm pretty sure the speakers you mentioned above use much lower quality drivers with higher distortion levels than the ones you're going to use for DIY ones.

[alspe]

Yes, no I know that 18W8535 and W18E001 are suitable for larger cabinets and give more base than 18W8545 and W18EX001. They have smaller magnet and higher Qts.

Maybe I'm trying Troels's Amish . Tuning 36-38 Hz in standmount cabinet 15-17 l. Grey line in picture below.

I believe that drivers are much better than in brand speakers but if something just goes wrong and speaker won't "sing"? I can make proper cabinet and so on but 600 euros is a lot of money :-). No, anything won't go wrong.

I'm considering cabinet that looks like Marten Duke.


Cabinet has many inclined walls. Box narrows and shallows to the back side. I think that's a pretty speaker.