I have decided to start making some speakers for myself. These will be the first ones that I'm not going by a plan for. I've built countless subwoofer boxes for cars, and as far as home speakers go I've only built an Eton 8.1 Kit from madisound for a friend.
Right now I have little bose Interlude 2000 series bookshelfs that annoy me to no end. They have a 6.5" Driver and I've heard more bass response from a 4".
What I've been looking at is the Peerless 811815 Tweeter, and the Peerless 850122 Woofer. It will be a 2 way set up and I'd like to make floorstanders out of them. I do have very nice speaker stands I made myself, however, and if the woofer works better in a bookshelf design, I can use the stands.
Several Concerns I have:
The driver cost of around $115 is where I'd like to stay if anyone has any other driver suggestions.
Winisd is showing me a 1.2 cube box tuned to 35 Hz. Is this a good size or should I play around with it more?
Will the drivers work together well? Where should I start with a cross over design?
I dont have any speaker anaylsis software, so I have to do everything by ear, which will be referenced to the previously mentioned Etons.
What brand caps, inductors, and resistors would suit these drivers potential well?
Is there a proven design that others have built with these drivers? I've seen the woofer implemented before, but with a different tweeter.
Thank you for all help!
Right now I have little bose Interlude 2000 series bookshelfs that annoy me to no end. They have a 6.5" Driver and I've heard more bass response from a 4".
What I've been looking at is the Peerless 811815 Tweeter, and the Peerless 850122 Woofer. It will be a 2 way set up and I'd like to make floorstanders out of them. I do have very nice speaker stands I made myself, however, and if the woofer works better in a bookshelf design, I can use the stands.
Several Concerns I have:
The driver cost of around $115 is where I'd like to stay if anyone has any other driver suggestions.
Winisd is showing me a 1.2 cube box tuned to 35 Hz. Is this a good size or should I play around with it more?
Will the drivers work together well? Where should I start with a cross over design?
I dont have any speaker anaylsis software, so I have to do everything by ear, which will be referenced to the previously mentioned Etons.
What brand caps, inductors, and resistors would suit these drivers potential well?
Is there a proven design that others have built with these drivers? I've seen the woofer implemented before, but with a different tweeter.
Thank you for all help!
Hello PEERLESS lovers!
Peerless!
Is it something in the Air, or what.
Suddenly people discover that they will build Peerless LSP.
SkinnyBoy: My Speakers!!! I Have Decided!!! Peerless All The Way!!!
And here is the answer to him, from kelticwizard:
Can't go wrong with Peerless. Personally, I prefer the 10" in the CSX line, because it has a large excursion-9 mm-plus it goes all the way to 2,000 Hz. It is an improved version of the CCC 10" subwoofer which at one time was one of the best subs you could buy. But the 8" is also good.
------------------------------
I can add to this:
Peerless makes drivers, with VERY good Value for money.
Especially good for Vented boxes.
You could join SkinnyBoy thread or he can join yours.
Or you can try keep BOTH threads alive .....
I, halojoy, wish you the best of luck with your first serious
loudspeaker-project.
I will help with what little I know.
Good Luck, onebadziggy
/halo - helps to place one bad ziggy on the top of the agenda
Peerless! Is it something in the Air, or what.
Suddenly people discover that they will build Peerless LSP.
SkinnyBoy: My Speakers!!! I Have Decided!!! Peerless All The Way!!!
And here is the answer to him, from kelticwizard:
Can't go wrong with Peerless. Personally, I prefer the 10" in the CSX line, because it has a large excursion-9 mm-plus it goes all the way to 2,000 Hz. It is an improved version of the CCC 10" subwoofer which at one time was one of the best subs you could buy. But the 8" is also good.
------------------------------
I can add to this:
Peerless makes drivers, with VERY good Value for money.
Especially good for Vented boxes.
You could join SkinnyBoy thread or he can join yours.
Or you can try keep BOTH threads alive .....
I, halojoy, wish you the best of luck with your first serious
loudspeaker-project.
I will help with what little I know.Good Luck,
onebadziggy /halo - helps to place one bad ziggy on the top of the agenda
well halo, I do believe its in the air, as I was going to go for Vifas, but then decided that peerless looked really good too.
I think I will commence the ordering of the drivers on madisound's next buisness day.
But one question- how would a two way be with the tweeter I picked and the 10" CSX as opposed to the 7"? Would I have a sonic gap? I ask this becasue I will most likely not be implementing a subwoofer into the system, at least for a long while.
I'm sooo excited!
*running around singing* gonna get better than my boses for less! *running around singing*
I think I will commence the ordering of the drivers on madisound's next buisness day.
But one question- how would a two way be with the tweeter I picked and the 10" CSX as opposed to the 7"? Would I have a sonic gap? I ask this becasue I will most likely not be implementing a subwoofer into the system, at least for a long while.
I'm sooo excited!
*running around singing* gonna get better than my boses for less! *running around singing*
Woofer+Tweeter - Sizes
There might not be a gap in freq-curve. Not on axis.
But a big Woofer can not spread the sound.
It is against physical laws.
--
You can not have 10 inch and baffle small in width either.
250 mm is not a narrow baffle.
And the distance center-center dome-woofer
will be long, say 180mm (250/2 + 110/2) which is big compared
to crossover wavelenght.
All this will limit the spread of soundwaves at upper mid.
------------
And the upper mid, say 1000Hz - is not what a 10" do best.
-------------------------
For my own two-way, I do not like to go for bigger woofer than
5 1/4" = 135mm
I just bought Audax HM130Z0 - as base for 2-way system.
It is 130mm.
And then you should know that I search for tweters that
go low. FS< 750 Hz and crossover preferable not above 2000-2500Hz.
Scanspeak have tweeters with fs=500-600
Vifa D27 has something like 650-750Hz.
A good thumb rule, when using 12dB filter
is to select crossover at least 2 octaves above Fs.
That is Cossover Freq >= 4 x Fs
-------------------
So if you want good directional info from that area
(upper mid)and in the crossover region,
you should not use too large woofer
and not select crossover frequency too high.
And, it could be as you say "a gap".
-----------------------------------------
Now many commercial speakers are having just that:
a lot of bass and good high frequency
and a gap in middle.
-----------------------
This is because the sellers have discover that such sound sells!
The customers like it. (They make such tests on gruops of people).
But it is not accurate reproduction of music/sound.
And can not be called HIFI.
--------------------------------------
In the end it comes downto what your goal is.
for disco your solution is perfect.
for natural music that sounds "as it is intended to"
it is not the optimal way.
------------------------------------
This was a long answer
by halo
I never should build like that.onebadziggy said:
There might not be a gap in freq-curve. Not on axis.
But a big Woofer can not spread the sound.
It is against physical laws.
--
You can not have 10 inch and baffle small in width either.
250 mm is not a narrow baffle.
And the distance center-center dome-woofer
will be long, say 180mm (250/2 + 110/2) which is big compared
to crossover wavelenght.
All this will limit the spread of soundwaves at upper mid.
------------
And the upper mid, say 1000Hz - is not what a 10" do best.
-------------------------
For my own two-way, I do not like to go for bigger woofer than
5 1/4" = 135mm
I just bought Audax HM130Z0 - as base for 2-way system.
It is 130mm.
And then you should know that I search for tweters that
go low. FS< 750 Hz and crossover preferable not above 2000-2500Hz.
Scanspeak have tweeters with fs=500-600
Vifa D27 has something like 650-750Hz.
A good thumb rule, when using 12dB filter
is to select crossover at least 2 octaves above Fs.
That is Cossover Freq >= 4 x Fs
-------------------
So if you want good directional info from that area
(upper mid)and in the crossover region,
you should not use too large woofer
and not select crossover frequency too high.
And, it could be as you say "a gap".
-----------------------------------------
Now many commercial speakers are having just that:
a lot of bass and good high frequency
and a gap in middle.
-----------------------
This is because the sellers have discover that such sound sells!
The customers like it. (They make such tests on gruops of people).
But it is not accurate reproduction of music/sound.
And can not be called HIFI.
--------------------------------------
In the end it comes downto what your goal is.
for disco your solution is perfect.
for natural music that sounds "as it is intended to"
it is not the optimal way.
------------------------------------
This was a long answer
by halo
This site contains a project that uses the Peerless drivers that you mentioned. Check out the Peerless Pipes. I'm thinking about building a set myself.
http://geocities.com/rbrines1/
http://geocities.com/rbrines1/
Some comments on halo's comments
halo has done his homework
on the "modern 2-way"
what he says is fairly standard thinking
but there are other sets of compromises
that work well too...
more than one way to skin a cat
So here to widen the possibilities...
There are 10s that thru cone trickery can be very extended... an example (not something you can buy at Madisound thou)
an early 60s vintage Foster (parent of Fostex)... to quote hurdygurdyman
You get around this
(in the above case)
by executing a dustcapectomy,
adding a phase plug
and adding a small T
to the end of the phase plug
But this strays far from the convential
it be more like a Frugal-phile[tm] tannoy
halo has done his homework
on the "modern 2-way"
what he says is fairly standard thinking
but there are other sets of compromises
that work well too...
more than one way to skin a cat
So here to widen the possibilities...
There are 10s that thru cone trickery can be very extended... an example (not something you can buy at Madisound thou)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
an early 60s vintage Foster (parent of Fostex)... to quote hurdygurdyman
You get around this
(in the above case)
by executing a dustcapectomy,
adding a phase plug
and adding a small T
to the end of the phase plug
But this strays far from the convential
it be more like a Frugal-phile[tm] tannoy
thanks planet10 for your comments
thanks planet10
I have noticed your comments with real thoughts
I know you have very more real world practical experience
than I have
Especially that about not putting the XO-freq
within this important freq-band
which contains very valuable information for human ear
What you are saying, is that we should prefer
say 400 and 4000 XO
before 200 and 2000.
I will have this in mind, and do some practical tries
to see what I prefer.
I will have to try and find Mid that can work well
upto 3500-4000
With such a XO-freq, I will on the other hand
have a much wider choice on the tweeter
(need not so super low FS)
halo - can speak, but also listen
thanks planet10
I have noticed your comments with real thoughts
I know you have very more real world practical experience
than I have
Especially that about not putting the XO-freq
within this important freq-band
which contains very valuable information for human ear
What you are saying, is that we should prefer
say 400 and 4000 XO
before 200 and 2000.
I will have this in mind, and do some practical tries
to see what I prefer.
I will have to try and find Mid that can work well
upto 3500-4000
With such a XO-freq, I will on the other hand
have a much wider choice on the tweeter
(need not so super low FS)
halo - can speak, but also listen
Well, the 10" idea is gone for now.
The reason I wont be implemented a sub for awhile is my mom. I haven't been able convince her that its a neccesary piece of the puzzle, she only thinks I want it to destroy our house.
I mainly listen to music with a strong low end, like Pink Floyd, Ozzy, Mudvanye, Bob Marley, and Sublime. So you can see my frustration with her.
I would really like to have 5-1/4 mids, becasue of all their benefits where it matters, but am concerned they wont meet my low freqency requirements. If it comes down to it, I will sacrifice the bass before I sacrifice the imaging and so forth.
The peerless tweeter has a 860 Hz Fs, but its not like I have to stick to that.
I'm liking the Vifa D27 tweeter also. The P13 looks nice also as a mid, but I'm leaning towards the P17 because of its lower freqency capability.
I checked out the Peerless pipe project, and I'm not sure if I really want to go that route, but thank you for mentioning it db6546.
So the question now is-5 or 6" mid driver? And should I go for the Vifa's or the Peerless? They look very similar to me, and I have no experience with either, so all suggestions are accepted!
Thank you all for the help thus far!
The reason I wont be implemented a sub for awhile is my mom. I haven't been able convince her that its a neccesary piece of the puzzle, she only thinks I want it to destroy our house.
I mainly listen to music with a strong low end, like Pink Floyd, Ozzy, Mudvanye, Bob Marley, and Sublime. So you can see my frustration with her.
I would really like to have 5-1/4 mids, becasue of all their benefits where it matters, but am concerned they wont meet my low freqency requirements. If it comes down to it, I will sacrifice the bass before I sacrifice the imaging and so forth.
The peerless tweeter has a 860 Hz Fs, but its not like I have to stick to that.
I'm liking the Vifa D27 tweeter also. The P13 looks nice also as a mid, but I'm leaning towards the P17 because of its lower freqency capability.
I checked out the Peerless pipe project, and I'm not sure if I really want to go that route, but thank you for mentioning it db6546.
So the question now is-5 or 6" mid driver? And should I go for the Vifa's or the Peerless? They look very similar to me, and I have no experience with either, so all suggestions are accepted!
Thank you all for the help thus far!
I did a little searching and found this project:
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/content/1015/
They have good response and are in the price range that I want.
Only drawback is lack of low octave response. Maybe I can convince my mom to let me have a sub.
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/content/1015/
They have good response and are in the price range that I want.
Only drawback is lack of low octave response. Maybe I can convince my mom to let me have a sub.
HEY!! I only just found this.. And it seems to be getting more interest than mine.. well, maybe.. amyway, I don'y know what shape to make the boxes... Or HOW to make them.. are screws a no-no? Should I router the sides to fit inside each other? Should I just glue, nails? I don't think my school has enough clamps to clamp one box... not with other people wanting clamps too.. lol
And it seems to be getting more interest than mine.. well, maybe.. amyway, I don'y know what shape to make the boxes... Or HOW to make them.. are screws a no-no? Should I router the sides to fit inside each other? Should I just glue, nails? I don't think my school has enough clamps to clamp one box... not with other people wanting clamps too.. lol
onebadziggy said:
How old are you? I have a problem with my mum too..
But with these speakers, I had half the money I needed for the drivers, so I went ahead and ordered them, then asked dad if I could borrow the money.. Where were you planning on gettign your drivers from? Could you go with 8inch rather than 6.5? Then use larger tower speakers boxes to get better bass.. Well, $115 is what the drivers cost and its around where I want to spend. I have more moeny, but this is my "limit" that I've arbitrarily set for myself. It includes all 4 drivers.
I'm 16, and my mom is really stubborn when it comes to this stuff so I know how you feel. She tells me DIY Audio is a passing phase and i'll grow out of it and im wasting my money, blah, blah, blah.
I thought about this over the night, And I think I want to go with a Vifa D27 tweeter, so I have the low Fs, and the peerless 850122 becasue it goes much lower than the other 6.5's ive been able to find in my price range.
A goal I hope to acheive now is a minimum number of parts for the crossover. This is for two reasons, I dont like complicated ones and fear they will rob me of audio pureness, and 2)I can afford better parts if I only get two caps and two inductors.
So if anyone doesnt have a problem with this particular idea, I beleive I will order the drivers tonight and then get some cabinet ideas circulating.
I'm 16, and my mom is really stubborn when it comes to this stuff so I know how you feel. She tells me DIY Audio is a passing phase and i'll grow out of it and im wasting my money, blah, blah, blah.
I thought about this over the night, And I think I want to go with a Vifa D27 tweeter, so I have the low Fs, and the peerless 850122 becasue it goes much lower than the other 6.5's ive been able to find in my price range.
A goal I hope to acheive now is a minimum number of parts for the crossover. This is for two reasons, I dont like complicated ones and fear they will rob me of audio pureness, and 2)I can afford better parts if I only get two caps and two inductors.
So if anyone doesnt have a problem with this particular idea, I beleive I will order the drivers tonight and then get some cabinet ideas circulating.
You can impress her when you can sell your projects and recoup the money spent. That's why you should try and do your best with your projects and make them look as good as they sound so that you can easily sell it to your friends and keep going with new projects. Then she may even brag about your products to her friends too...
Just my way to get more pocket money for my hobbies when I was your age....
Chris
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