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Old 25th April 2007, 02:55 AM   #81
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Bud,

Thanks for simplifying your explanations, because a lot of the time I don't have a clue about what you are saying.

I don't pretend to understand why the backside treatment would make a different wrt transparency of the cone for rear wave reflections, except to the extent that if the treatment calms the cone (like your water tank test), it seems intuitive that reflections back through the cone would become more noticeable.

If I decide to go with blocks on the backside, shouldn't they line up with blocks in the front? That's what prompted my question about the paint soaking into the paper. I'd think that the deeper the fibers are bonded together by the paint, the better the blocks would interrupt the waves travelling through the cone. It would even seem that some of the EnABL benefit could be had using replacement surrounds with rectangle cutouts around the edge where the surround overlaps the cone.

While the Mamboni treatment may have some similar results, it seems to be done in a different manner by damping the edge of the cone at different distances.

Both seem to make sense by making the cone effectively many different sizes instead of just a circle or concentric circles.
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Old 25th April 2007, 03:12 AM   #82
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Hi Sheldon,

Yes, it has. With results from spectacular to undetectable.

The spectacular was on the end where you might expect. Radio Shack three way with mid and tweet horns and a 15" woofer. Horns quit honking and screeching and the woofer quit stumbling and rumbling with bass input. I did not care much for the sound quality revealed but it was VERY intense. All of the surfaces I could get at were treated including both sides of the mid dome. Not sure any longer about the tweeter dome backside, but if it could be gotten to
I did so.

In between were a set of Mackie pro sound horns, with a driver I got a little bit of a look at with their laser interferometer. Unfortunately, Dave Bei, the Laser and all data left for Italy before I got hard copy. Sound was also more intense but I did not treat anything but the titanium domes. Actually still have the domes.

Third was an EV t350 horn from Romy the Cat. Treated all surfaces again, including both sides of the dome. I could not tell any difference qualitatively and Romy could not either.

A few others have asked questions similar to yours in PM's and now you know what they do.

The process should eliminate the two major modes of energy storage in horns of all types. It wil not correct or cover up what the horn surface adds as an ongoing diffraction, if anything. Will also remove any energy storage on the domes or in the compression chambers, though with properly designed and used drivers this should not be a big issue.

Again, the only big correction also produced a serious increase in intensity, in plastic walled horns of indifferent quality, to begin with.
The woofer ended up being a very transparent match for the horns, so great was the improvement in it's activities.

What the process will do is provide direct radiator systems that very closely approach horns in uncompressed dynamic range, clarity and reproduction of musical nuance.

From this, I assume that those horns being driven by cone drivers, as the compression device, could benefit greatly. And the addition of the Mamboni triangles to the back side could be crucial here, if the back of the driver is enclosed and of great benefit even if they are not.

Bud
 
Old 25th April 2007, 03:47 AM   #83
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Hi John,

Thanks, it is difficult to remember that you all aren't directly connected to my brain. You, on the other hand are very happy about this circumstance, even if you had not realized it before.

I have aligned blocks on several occasions. I can't report any quantitative gain or qualitative gain, but it does seem to make sense. However, I no longer make any attempt to align them either as rings or specific sector block alignments. That doesn't preclude you from trying it and finding additional benefit however.

I can say that just coating the back side with the gloss does help. Even with no blocks in place.

I do not think that the penetration of the cone material is vitally important. The pattern works in an exactly similar fashion on impermeable surfaces and treating the back side has the same degree of effect. Even thick, molded poly cones, that you would expect no interactivity from, are just as susceptible to back side treatment benefits.

I am not sure that the Mambon process is actually a damping process. I think it really works by effectively providing more surface area for the energy, in boundary layer, to emit into that third vector from, the longitudinal compression wave in the adjacent air. Certainly the use of PVA as the felt glue would not act as a damping mechanism to any great degree. I really think it is just a better boundary layer and that the energy it deals with all exits before it reaches terminus, just as most of the energy in an EnABL treated cone does.

Keep asking those questions.
Bud
 
Old 25th April 2007, 04:12 AM   #84
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I guess I'll have to try EnABL with an experiment I saw on youtube with rice, a metal plate, and an HF transducer http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zkox6niJ1Wc

Maybe that will give me a better understanding of what it does.
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Old 25th April 2007, 04:51 AM   #85
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John,

You should also look at the other three on resonance. Very interesting. I will be surprised if there is any difference with a pattern treatment applied in either case. I think these are all due to systemic nodes rather than transient ringing. Might be the same in some instances, but I am doubtful. Certainly worth attempting both experiments, with rice and with dust and round panel. I would expect similar patterns to emerge in untreated ringing so.....?

Bud
 
Old 25th April 2007, 07:14 AM   #86
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I have some garbage 15's that I could cut the cones off. Then replace the cone with a flat piece of somewhat strong paper like posterboard to imitate cone material (open to suggestions), and extend the VC former up to the flat cone with a cardboard tube. Then do the same kind of experiments demonstrated on youtube, but with this flat paper cone.

The setup would be quite easy and I have 4 of these junk drivers, so if I can get the first one to behave in interesting ways with sand or sawdust or whatever. Then I do all 4 and get them behaving the same. At that point, I'm ready to try to see the effects of EnABL, Mamboni, doping, etc. I understand that cone geometry is different, and the resonances may not change, but some good info may show up (changes in transition times, noise manifested differently, etc). Worst case I get some cool dancing rice videos. Best case I prove big differences from these treatments for the non-believers or those on the fence, and maybe even come up with ideas to improve them.

Tomorrow is my day off, so time to get supplies and cut off those cones.
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Old 26th April 2007, 10:11 AM   #87
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The patent


Only today found out about google patents.http://www.google.com/patents?id=aoU...04,746#PPP1,M1
 
Old 26th April 2007, 10:37 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bas Horneman
The patent


Only today found out about google patents.http://www.google.com/patents?id=aoU...04,746#PPP1,M1

it's always handy to know this one :
http://www.pat2pdf.org/
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Old 26th April 2007, 05:47 PM   #89
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This is the one i use:

http://free.patentfetcher.com/

instead of having to page thru the patent, grab each image, and them assemble the pages, this is one click and i have the entire patent open as a pdf.

dave
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Old 29th April 2007, 02:58 PM   #90
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Quote:
If you can give me a few days I will be putting up pictures of the pen types needed, the paints needed and showing how a pair of Lowthers can be tamed.
How is this going? I'm keen to try this method with my FE206ES-R drivers, along with a couple of Planet 10's phase plugs.

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