EnABL Processes

[BudP]

yes I have listened to EnA**'Ddrivers/cabinets. Didn't hear anything to set them apart from other competently designed non-EnABL'd systems.

May I know where these devices are? I would like to see a picture of what was done. If you heard no difference, I have to question what processes were used.

Bud

[FrankWW]

Originally posted by dlr

I would not call any of his descriptions exacting. They are at times meandering, verbose, contradictory and purely conjecture based on ears and hearsay. There's nothing scientific in evidence, yet the descriptions are attempts to be scientific. It is all counter to the science.

Dave

No. You are talking about the stuff attached to Buds theorizing. When he actually describes the sound quality from his own experience he is very clear. (Which I think is a very good place to start investigating).


When Bud describes how to do the enabl treatment he is very clear.

Other users also have been very clear and specific in their description - very little metaphor - see, for instance, Alan Hopes description a couple of posts back. (Yes, he is using similes - even scientists have to use them). They are talking about much greater than just noticeable differences.

If I could clear out some of the 20 dB down stuff in my unfortunately updated, outdated and no further updates possible system, I would be a happy fellow. (Design and drivers out of date).

No point pounding at Bud, and the rest of us by now are mostly clear what the difference is between you.

[Alex from Oz]

Originally posted by dlr


I have said from the beginning that there may be a change in FR (though it was argued at one point that there was not) and that there may indeed be audible differences. This will occur any time any significant change is made such as distributed added mass. If there is more than one variable altered and the changes cannot be reduced to a single variable or all but one accounted for, then no valid conclusions can be made. All of the tests suggested encompass more than one variable and they're not in just the driver. Valid, reliable audibility tests are not simple undertakings.

Dave

dlr,

What I am proposing is EnABL'ing the front mounting plate of the driver not the cone. See attached pic.
It follows then that there would be no added mass as the cone itself will not be altered.

So if there are any audible and/or measureable changes to FR or anything else it will be resultant from only one variable - the EnABL pattern.

[planet10]

Originally posted by Carlp
Anyone know of a digest version of this thread with the key DIY posts ID'ed? Or a website with the key points? I suspect there might be a lot of folks willing to try this but for this long and often not very useful thread.

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums...p=20995#p20995

Bud makes 3 posts that describe the procedure.

dave

[jlsem]

yes I have listened to EnA**'Ddrivers/cabinets. Didn't hear anything to set them apart from other competently designed non-EnABL'd systems.

you clearly don't understand "blind" and "double blind" testing methodology" and controls. You seem to imply that adequate "blind" studies have been performed. They haven't, despite opponents claims to the contrary. Do some reading , apply rigourous standards, and report back.

[BudP]

CarlP,

Here are links to all of the posts and a picture gallery of the treated drivers, dealt with in the posts. Some are virtual treatments and I will be happy to provide this for your drivers too.

Lowther DX4
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...71#post1197871 post 127
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...59#post1198759 post 128/129
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...64#post1202564 post 158
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...86#post1209986 post 169/170
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...30#post1210730 post 184
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...67#post1212967 post 192
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...40#post1213740 post 193
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...79#post1215579 post 207
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...19#post1227619 post 252

Fostex 127 E
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...15#post1224615 post 241
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...89#post1225189 post 247

Lowther PM6A
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...82#post1248682 post 345
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...80#post1256080 post 373

Hemp FR 4.5c
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...70#post1264670 post 374
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...44#post1265844 post 375
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...06#post1267406 post 382

Lowther A 45
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...03#post1316103 post 668

Hemp FR8c
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...45#post1359745 post 1039
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...94#post1363694 post 1049
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...05#post1364505 post 1060
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...76#post1367676 post 1094
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...60#post1371260 post 1107

Fostex 120 A
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...68#post1407368 post 1843

Phase Plugs
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...05#post1301905 post 621

Tutorial
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums...sd=a&start=105

resonance from u tube http://youtube.com/user/shermph
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...68#post1231568 post 270

pics
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvin...ex127ETreatment
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine...ey=VnmOeDveOOk
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine

Personal reports
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...81#post1269281 post 386
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...31#post1275431 post 414
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...74#post1275474 post 417
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...82#post1302282 post 626
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...29#post1317429 post 675

Thanks for asking. The original reason for this thread has been sidelined for a while.

Bud

[maxro]

Originally posted by BudP
The original reason for this thread has been sidelined for a while.

Indeed. It seems that some folks can't help but put the "anal" in "analytical".

[terry j]

Hi Alex in oz


I'm only a couple of hours away from Canberra, and would be very interested in hearing what you have done with enable.

would be fun to meet another diyer anyway.

I think the last two pages have suddenly taken a turn for the better, the question (to me) that needs to be addressed is Buds assertion (along with others) that there is indeed some sort of low level detail extraction that seems to be inexplicable.

We have gone back and forth tawking theory..which seems a bit pointless unless there is in fact an effect to talk about.

Bud and others maintain that there in fact is, (whatever the actual mechanism), all others who are arguing theoretical mechanisms seem to have not yet had a listen.

Would not the next step be that the offer of enabled vs un-enabled drivers be taken up and evaluated? Pity we couldn't get them in Australia, so I urge you guys over in Nth America and environs to take advantage of your close proximity and do something along those lines.

Alex and I will do something here ha ha ha (says me taking advantage of his initiative!)

[FrankWW]

Originally posted by Alan Hope
The first sonic change I noticed in my freshly EnABL'd speakers was the impression that the sound (listened to at about 30° off axis) no longer came from the middle of the driver, but from about 2 feet behind it. I can't see how FR / damping effects can explain that. (nb This effect was evident blinded, and in my keyboard combo driver as well as my Fostexes).

Can any of you scientific types explain how this effect might be caused? At least 3 people have reported it in similar terms

Alan, I am not a "scientific type" but I expect the enabl patches and pattern do damp sound waves traveling through the diaphragm material near the surface. The more these kind of waves are damped, the less energy the diaphragm material stores and the less sound radiated by it.

Diaphragm vibrational modes radiate non-uniformly; that is, first from one area of the diaphragm and then from another. (I suspect this radiation possibly has directional characteristics as well). I think this messes up our imaging. So the less these modes are excited, the more aural spacial and stereo illusion we can manufacture.

Any sound the diaphragm material radiates, (distinguishing it from the intended audio signal created by the cone movement), is noise. Lower the SPL of that noise and you will hear more music. A side benefit is that the speaker will have less "characteristic sound".

.................................................. .........................

I expect the enabl pattern, which was arrived at empirically by Bud, does, in some cases, actually act like a filter for some range of wavelengths travelling through the diaphragm. And, in some unlucky cases it probably acts as a waveguide for for some range of wavelengths - Bud has mentioned that sometimes when first trying enabl pattern on some speakers they have sounded worse.

One more thing, damping is is often mentioned on this thread as the result of added mass so often that it may be missed that just adding mass is not the only damping mechanism. Putting a stiff layer on a less stiff vibrating stratum will damp it, gluing a stiffer layer on with elastic glue will damp it, embedding a dense object surrounded by an elastic medium will damp it, even adding holes may damp it.

Doing these things with well thought out patterns is not unexceptional - its often done with architectural, automotive and home appliance structural members and panels, and even, once in a while, audio speaker panels.

[Alex from Oz]

Originally posted by terry j
Hi Alex in oz

I'm only a couple of hours away from Canberra, and would be very interested in hearing what you have done with enable.

would be fun to meet another diyer anyway.

Alex and I will do something here ha ha ha (says me taking advantage of his initiative!)

Sounds like a great idea! I'll send you an email.

Cheers,

Alex